ECR1: Florida Panthers (A3) vs Tampa Bay Lightning (A2) - PANTHERS WIN 4-1

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Not sure what you're talking about? I said at best it should have been a minor penalty. If you only watch the slow motion replay it might seem like an eternity, but in real time Guentzel had just made a pass. In fact he was caught watching his pass. A clean shoulder-to-shoulder open ice hit on someone who was the puck carrier less than a second before does not a major, fine or suspension make. Unless the NHL wants to revise the rulebook.

This is all in the rules. The rules define puck carrier and puck possession. Another player is already in possession of the puck (and more than 15 feet away from Guentzel) before Tkachuk makes his hit. That means Guentzel is not the puck carrier and he is not the player in possession of the puck.

Also, interference clearly calls out body positioning. "Moving laterally and without establishing body position, then making contact with the non-puck carrier is not permitted and will be penalized as interference". Tkachuk had to turn and skate into Guentzel and he did so when someone else had the puck.

I think the rules would also allow a charging penalty on Tkachuk based on the distance he traveled to make the hit.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I'm talking about the play...look at the picture above your take is beyond laughable. It's already a major under the current rules.
Its 5 all day long, was reviewed and called as such already. Fine or suspension is possible they are going to look at it, its all anybody was talking about post game.

I appreciate your appeal to authority. Since we're going that route, can you point me to where in the rulebook it states that an open ice shoulder-to-shoulder hit on a player that was the puck carrier less than a second before is a major penalty? I'll grant that it could be argued to be an interference minor penalty. But where in the rulebook does it justify elevating this to a five minute major penalty?

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by cannon7

You contradict yourself here. Did he not handle the puck or did he tap the puck to make a pass to a teammate?



For two objects traveling approximately 15 miles per hour it would take approximately 0.34 seconds for the two objects to collide over a 15 foot distance.

I don't understand your argument as to how something occurring quickly over a short distance "makes things worse"? If anything, that gives more justification that it was a legal hit. Quite the opposite is true, if more time had gone by then that would, in fact, be worse.

Stick handling. You know, the act of carrying the puck for any amount of time. He did not stick handle the puck for any amount of time. All he did was hit the puck immediately to another player. This is significant when reading the rules about puck possession and puck carrier as written in the interference rules.

Traveling a long distance to make a hit is against the rules. It is called charging.

Traveling a long distance at high speed makes the hit more violent. Making the hit more violent allows for a minor penalty to become a major penalty (in the rules).

Breaking multiple rules and checking the boxes to turn minor penalties into major penalties all makes the situation worse, not better.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

I don’t think anyone is defending the hit. Clearly unnecessary and deserved more than a 2. But it can also be less severe than other plays

lol you sure about that

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I appreciate your appeal to authority. Since we're going that route, can you point me to where in the rulebook it states that an open ice shoulder-to-shoulder hit on a player that was the puck carrier less than a second before is a major penalty? I'll grant that it could be argued to be an interference minor penalty. But where in the rulebook does it justify elevating this to a five minute major penalty?

Yeah if that's what happened you would have a point lol...sorry can't debate this utter nonsense. Even the sites biggest Panthers homers will say and have said it was a major.

We can have an actual debate about suspension/fine/nothing. I think Tkachuk is lucky Hagel got 1. Had he got 2 Tkachuk would for sure be getting 1.

I will agree its not quite as bad and you cant suspend for half a game so he likely gets fined. I think the situation could get him a game though...its a totally meaningless hit with no impact on the game even if it was legal. Game is a blowout and a guy is skating in on an uncontested EN. League has used that as a factor in the past.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Yeah if that's what happened you would have a point lol...sorry can't debate this utter nonsense. Even the sites biggest Panthers homers will say and have said it was a major.

Looking at the 450+ comments on the hit on YouTube I see a lot of non-Panthers / non-Lightning fans asking why this was a major penalty. Don't think there is as clear a consensus as you suggest.

Originally Posted by dino7c

We can have an actual debate about suspension/fine/nothing. I think Tkachuk is lucky Hagel got 1. Had he got 2 Tkachuk would for sure be getting 1.

I will agree its not quite as bad and you cant suspend for half a game so he likely gets fined. I think the situation could get him a game though...its a totally meaningless hit with no impact on the game even if it was legal. Game is a blowout and a guy is skating in on an uncontested EN. League has used that as a factor in the past.

I agree the Hagel hit on Barkov was more clear since Barkov had never touched the puck. Had Guentzel not touched the puck, I'd expect similar punishment for Tkachuk.

[OminousFlames]

At most Tkachuk will get 1 game. it won't be a series changer. Obviously it didn't hurt the Lightning losing Hagel for 1 game.

[DeluxeMoustache]

2 things for the Hagel hit.

The league was clear that Barkov did not touch the puck, and was ineligible to be hit. The onus is on the hitter to ensure the player is eligible to be hit

Secondly, there was some head contact on the Hagel hit

For the Tkachuk hit, Guentzel did touch the puck, and the hit was through the body with no head contact

Maybe it was a split second late, but these two hits materially differ based on those 2 factors

5 minutes was too much for that hit. It would be a joke to issue a further punishment

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

2 things for the Hagel hit.

The league was clear that Barkov did not touch the puck, and was ineligible to be hit. The onus is on the hitter to ensure the player is eligible to be hit

Secondly, there was some head contact on the Hagel hit

For the Tkachuk hit, Guentzel did touch the puck, and the hit was through the body with no head contact

Maybe it was a split second late, but these two hits materially differ based on those 2 factors

5 minutes was too much for that hit. It would be a joke to issue a further punishment

He was about 15 feet away when the player touched the puck it wasnt a split second late. It was very late and thats why they tossed him. I guess a fine, this was egregious interference, charging, and had no barring on preventing a goal in a blowout game....It was reviewed to be a major, quite quickly. Some of you are smoking red and white pom-poms I think.



As of this picture the player is no longer eligible to be hit

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ yeah, I guess he voluntarily left Calgary.. lol you are a scorned ex

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

2 things for the Hagel hit.

The league was clear that Barkov did not touch the puck, and was ineligible to be hit. The onus is on the hitter to ensure the player is eligible to be hit

Secondly, there was some head contact on the Hagel hit

For the Tkachuk hit, Guentzel did touch the puck, and the hit was through the body with no head contact

Maybe it was a split second late, but these two hits materially differ based on those 2 factors

5 minutes was too much for that hit. It would be a joke to issue a further punishment

Guentzel touched the puck so briefly and Tkachuk turned to hit him from far enough away that by the time contact was made another player was firmly in control of the puck, which makes Guentzel ineligible to be hit as if he had never had the puck.

Also, the play was pretty much a gimmie once it was a breakaway on an empty net. Guentzel was coasting and watching the goal. He didn't look like he thought a hit was coming.

I would compare how hard Guentzel's head hit the ice. Hagel making some contact with Barkov's head is bad, but Tkachuk hitting Guentzel hard enough in an illegal way to flip him over and have his head hit the ice like that.... I think they could argue a similar potential intent to injure.

You could also argue that the proflie of the players are very similar. The targeted players of each hit are star players for their respective teams and an injury to either of them could tip the scales of the series.

The last thing to factor in... I think this was Hagel's first suspension but Tkachuk has a history (I think he has had 3?) and that should make a suspension more likely.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ yeah, I guess he voluntarily left Calgary.. lol you are a scorned ex

The refs that reviewed it and gave him 5 also scorned exes? Like my take at least aligns with reality.

"Maybe a tad late" look at the picture ffs

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

2 things for the Hagel hit.

The league was clear that Barkov did not touch the puck, and was ineligible to be hit. The onus is on the hitter to ensure the player is eligible to be hit

Secondly, there was some head contact on the Hagel hit

For the Tkachuk hit, Guentzel did touch the puck, and the hit was through the body with no head contact

Maybe it was a split second late, but these two hits materially differ based on those 2 factors

5 minutes was too much for that hit. It would be a joke to issue a further punishment

That Tkachuk hit was very late. Guentzel was looking at the play ahead and to his left and got blindsided on his right by Tkachuk.

Tkachuk actually changed direction and spins into the hit, after the puck is gone. It's a play by a sore loser.

That's a very illegal hit.

[DeluxeMoustache]

That is silly. In the freeze frame they are headed towards each other.

Watch it at speed. There is less than a second between puck touch and body check

Edit: cannon did a quick calculation, about a third of a second. Tkachuk turned and didn’t even take a stride

Maybe you guys should watch knitting

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

That is silly. In the freeze frame they are headed towards each other.

Watch it at speed. There is less than a second between puck touch and body check

Edit: cannon did a quick calculation, about a third of a second. Tkachuk turned and didn’t even take a stride

Maybe you guys should watch knitting

Such a lame, dude bro comment...guy got a 5 minute major that was reviewed and confirmed. Its not a legal hit there is no debate to be had about that. Debate any further action all you like.
I can enjoy hard hitting hockey and know what a legal hit is at the same time.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ haha

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Tkachuk can be a goof at times

Fact. But that's also why I think he's such a unique player and so damn good. If he didn't do some of the things he did, he wouldn't be as impactful.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

That is silly. In the freeze frame they are headed towards each other.

Watch it at speed. There is less than a second between puck touch and body check

Edit: cannon did a quick calculation, about a third of a second. Tkachuk turned and didn’t even take a stride

Maybe you guys should watch knitting

It was clearly illegal. Also, not related to the game. Cirelli is skating towards the open net, and tkachuk ignored that. Dirty hit.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

It's absolutely a late hit, and it seems intentional in that it wasn't about making a hockey play, but punishing the opponent. The 5 minute penalty is more than warranted.

It absolutely is similar to the Hagel hit, but there are some distinctions that may prevent a suspension (passing the puck a second before, pure body contact-nothing high or towards the head). However, Tkachuk has a reputation, and I wouldn't be shocked at all to see a 1 game suspension just for that reason, but also to keep tempers down for the rest of the series.

The incident could have been avoided if the Panthers decided to score more than 1 goal. They need to pick up the offense a bit and push more in the offensive zone. They didn't get a lot of bounces in that game, whereas Tampa did finally get some bounces, but they can do more to push and create scoring chances.

[GioforPM]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1916515137214710006