Huberdeau on the Panthers winning the cup

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, the difference being...its 'not our job' to know.

It was his.

This is the thing I don't understand in defence of Treliving - the "how could he ever know?" argument.


He hires the professional scouts to advise him. He had access to metrics and an analytics department that we don't. He has experienced AGMs to bounce ideas off. He has access to players personality and references that we obviously don't. He has years of experience that we don't.


I, for one, agreed with a lot of Treliving's moves, and I disagreed with some of them. It doesn't matter at all. Treliving is the one making decisions, and he should be making better decisions than I could have. I don't have the decades of experience and the team behind me to make those decisions effectively. He also had almost a decade to put everything into place as well, so it isn't like Burke or Maloney who were just keeping things running for the next guy.


Calling Treliving an idiot is wrong. However, giving him passes on things that went wrong doesn't make sense to me either. It is his literally his job to make these calls correctly. This was not a good call, even if dummies like me thought it was an amazing move.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think Treliving saw the sexy names, and huge numbers. Doesn't seem like pro scouting was consulted.

This is the issue with the team and Sutter. The break down of communication with coaches and management, and trying to find a fit. That's why he got fired the first time around as GM, when he stopped talking with his brother and we got Feaster yay.

This is also the issue with Treliving working solo. When you are making franchise altering trades, maybe you should consult your other management teams, and coaching staff, the scouting department.

This is why it is so refreshing with the new management team, coaching staff, etc. It seems like its a team working upstairs, and trying to connect the players with the coaches and system.

I think losing Burke probably hurt for us, he probably kept Treliving in check and him and Snowy stopped him for trading for that one dman?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

This is the thing I don't understand in defence of Treliving - the "how could he ever know?" argument.


He hires the professional scouts to advise him. He had access to metrics and an analytics department that we don't. He has experienced AGMs to bounce ideas off. He has access to players personality and references that we obviously don't. He has years of experience that we don't.


I, for one, agreed with a lot of Treliving's moves, and I disagreed with some of them. It doesn't matter at all. Treliving is the one making decisions, and he should be making better decisions than I could have. I don't have the decades of experience and the team behind me to make those decisions effectively. He also had almost a decade to put everything into place as well, so it isn't like Burke or Maloney who were just keeping things running for the next guy.


Calling Treliving an idiot is wrong. However, giving him passes on things that went wrong doesn't make sense to me either. It is his literally his job to make these calls correctly. This was not a good call, even if dummies like me thought it was an amazing move.

Pro scouting was a weakness with the Flames. We saw it with Neal, and a few others. Conroy seems to have a better feel, but of course there will be mistakes made - there always are. Other teams make them as well - PLD keeps getting acquired, so does Evander Kane, Vancouver has rbought in some guys who never panned out.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Um...I'd like to nominate Reinhart and possibly Forsling. I think you're probably right in him being 2nd best, but there are a lot of good players on that team that are right there with him.

We all agree that there are a lot of good players on the Stanley Cup champs

[Barnet Flame]

I agree with NOTHING!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

I agree with NOTHING!

Thats the spirit!! The plucky Brit swoops in to save the day!

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

You take Hubys first year with Sutter where they miss the playoffs by two points and tell me if Huby playing anywhere expectations, they miss the playoffs? 0% chance.

The next season the team runs it back with Markstrom playing A+ and Kadri's resurgence and they miss the playoffs again.

Now they're in a full rebuild. Explain it to me.

Be reasonable, it wasn't just Huberdeau, there was other players that were inconsistent. The team also was not good enough, we need better players. Sure Huberdeau has struggled offensively but he still tries. To be fair it is unrealistic to expect one guy to carry the team and even if he could the Flames need to address this. He may be a very small part of a much bigger problem that the current GM is trying to rectify.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Um...I'd like to nominate Reinhart and possibly Forsling. I think you're probably right in him being 2nd best, but there are a lot of good players on that team that are right there with him.

What was your opinion on Hubby ? I assume you watched him more than anyone here . Did you think he was a 115pt “fraud” before the trade ?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Be reasonable, it wasn't just Huberdeau, there was other players that were inconsistent. The team also was not good enough, we need better players. Sure Huberdeau has struggled offensively but he still tries. To be fair it is unrealistic to expect one guy to carry the team and even if he could the Flames need to address this. He may be a very small part of a much bigger problem that the current GM is trying to rectify.

I don’t think it’s unrealistic for a player who is paid as a top 15 in the league to carry a team

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, because we should evaluate players based on a tiny sample size. And not just on that tiny sample size, but on the votes garnered for a trophy, based only on that small sample, from a bunch of media guys who we whole-heartedly respect - see your own posts regarding Conn Smythe voting.

Let's look at it in a more rational and reasonable context - if there were a distribution draft of Florida players, who do other GMs grab after Barkov? Bobrovky? Hardly. Reinhart? Maybe if that particular GM specifically needed a sniper. Ekblad? Unlikely.

The answer is that it would almost certainly be Tkachuk.

The fact that you don't even mention Forsling is telling...

The Panthers could have survived without Tkachuk...dead in the water without Barkov, Bob, Forsling.

Like Bob absolutely stole game 1...thank your lucky stars or we would be hearing all about the Oilers cup right now.

Have your opinion but to say "its not even close" is so ridiculous it destroys any argument you have. Even Cali will tell you it is at least VERY close. I wanted Tkachuk to own the Oilers, I think Lomberg did as much in the Finals.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

In any event, I think Tkachuk is clearly behind Barkov and Bobrovsky in importance to the team. You can make an argument about Ekblad v. Tkachuk I think.

Fair points; There are things Matt can do that the other 2 can't. He is elite in some things and probably on Maurice's advice took it easy the last season after those injuries. It was said that Maurice dialed back Bennett's game and told him to pick his spots until the playoffs rolled around.

Matthew Tkachuk didn't need to be scoring goals last season he just needed to be ready for the playoffs and scored some game winners early on.

[Shazam]

BT chases performance.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I don’t think it’s unrealistic for a player who is paid as a top 15 in the league to carry a team

It's unreasonable to expect a player of that ilk to carry a team of players that are underachieving or don't want to be there Flames also lacking elite players.

[Rhett44]

I see some people trying to minimize Tkachuk's effect on the Panthers. He may not be their best player, but he turned their entire culture around.

The Panthers were yearly 1st round exits when they had Huberdeau on the team. Tkachuk helped bring them to relevance in the playoffs.

Make no mistake, if you trade JUST Huberdeau for Tkachuk, the Panthers have no finals appearances and no cups in the last 2 years.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I see some people trying to minimize Tkachuk's effect on the Panthers. He may not be their best player, but he turned their entire culture around.

The Panthers were yearly 1st round exits when they had Huberdeau on the team. Tkachuk helped bring them to relevance in the playoffs.

Make no mistake, if you trade JUST Huberdeau for Tkachuk, the Panthers have no finals appearances and no cups in the last 2 years.

Someone who was a non factor in the playoffs, flipping between making it one year and not the next season, and never made is past the 2nd round with poor showings changed the culture and taught them how to win in the playoffs?

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Someone who was a non factor in the playoffs, flipping between making it one year and not the next season, and never made is past the 2nd round with poor showings changed the culture and taught them how to win in the playoffs?

I honestly feel like he tried too hard at the beginning of every playoffs and got himself injured here. Paul Maurice probably reeled that in a bit.

You can't teach his go all out attitude though. Remember when our locker room didn't like when he tried too hard at the end of a game when he went after Muzzin? Those are the types of players you want on your team. Not the country club atmosphere type players who don't care.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

I honestly feel like he tried too hard at the beginning of every playoffs and got himself injured here. Paul Maurice probably reeled that in a bit.

You can't teach his go all out attitude though. Remember when our locker room didn't like when he tried too hard at the end of a game when he went after Muzzin?

Blowing your stack is not ‘trying too hard’, it's just stupid. Tkachuk did genuinely have to learn not to do that.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Blowing your stack is not ‘trying too hard’, it's just stupid. Tkachuk did genuinely have to learn not to do that.

True. I guess what I'm saying is give me a player who is willing to go all out and have someone reel him in. Over a player who simply does not care or saves effort for another game.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

True. I guess what I'm saying is give me a player who is willing to go all out and have someone reel him in. Over a player who simply does not care or saves effort for another game.

It's not like those are the only two options.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

True. I guess what I'm saying is give me a player who is willing to go all out and have someone reel him in. Over a player who simply does not care or saves effort for another game.

I don't know if blowing up at other players is effort.

Effort is also hard for anyone to judge. Unless teams or players ahem PLD just mail it, I think most players are giving the effort needed to win, sometimes it's just not good enough and skill takes over.