According to Coleman, Tkachuk wanted to stay

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

It sucks we lost Tkachuk but he was only staying if Johnny stayed. That team wasn’t winning

Tkachuk leaving was need to this team to hit rock bottom

That team didn't seem to have the right makeup of players, coaching.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

That team didn't seem to have the right makeup of players, coaching.

That team was missing a Norris caliber Dman (Fox) and better center depth (Monahan pre-injuries, Bennett late bloomer).

Such a shame, had most (if not all) of the key pieces to make it work.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

What is your relationship to Brad?

When Brad was first hired I was skeptical as I didn't think he had enough experience. I still don't think he was the right guy. You might not like it but that's just my honest opinion. Conroy doesn't have a lot of experience either but coming up through the organization and being a skilled player himself those are some good intangibles. So far I think he's doing a good job.

Conroy said that Brad tended to do things on his own, but that he himself likes to involve the management team more so in the process. That may have some advantages.

I was a big fan of Darryl Sutter for a long time, I thought he did some excellent things when he was coaching here the first time, but was not a very good GM. I pumped his tires a lot on this site because I thought we needed an experienced coach, but the Darryl that arrived, was much different from the one I remember, maybe as he got older and being away from the game he lost touch a bit with the players, and of course coaching styles have changed over the years.

Lots of people know I pumped his tires a lot but there were lots of people here who didn't agree. I didn't have a problem with that, that's okay too. I thought he would be the solution for the team, in the end he didn't do a good job. My point is there's lots of people on here who don't agree with Brad, I'm one of them, and that's okay. I just find it odd that you defend him at every turn, but some people like what he did some people didn't, and that's okay. Not everybody likes oranges, not everybody likes apples, that doesn't make them bad people. It certainly doesn't make Brad a bad person. But don't be surprised on the forum with passionate hockey fans that some people are going to have different opinions about the GM. Right now people really like what Conroy is doing, but there's going to be people down the road who might disagree with some of his decisions and that's okay too.

I wasn't a fan of Brads hiring from the very beginning, I am pretty open-minded, but through his solid work he didn't really change my mind. I just don't think he was the right guy for the Calgary Flames. He did some things well but I think he lacked experience in other areas that set the organization back. My preference was to have more experienced, more proven GM before Brad was hired.

Definitely people don't have all the information so sometimes they jump to conclusions about what's happened or didn't happen or how things went down, or were run behind the scenes. But don't be surprised that some people are going to have a different opinion and not everybody was a fan of Brad, but lots of people were, and that's okay too.

I have no relationship to Treliving.

I’ve been fairly consistent that I think Treliving deserves criticism. Every GM does because none of them hit 1.000 whether it be the draft, development, trades, signings, etc. No e of them are perfect and you can rest assured Craig Conroy will have his fair share of blemishes as well.

My defence of Treliving has more to do with the very low bar being set here by many/most. Treliving was a GM with some good and some bad. It seems though the fasionable thing to do here is label Treliving an idiot. Again, very low bar comments.

I’ll also point out a couple things relative to your own post, which was mostly fair. When Trelivjng was hired it was under a seasoned vet GM in Brian Burke. Burke also was part of the picture for Treliving’s first I think it also worth bearing in mind that any Toronto Maple Leaf fan over the age of 20 should be able to tell you that when Burke was hired by the Leafs he famously said ‘I’m not a patient man’ meaning any thought/hope of a rebuild was going to be short lived. So, it should be no surprise that the Flames followed suit in Treliving’s first year when the made they playoffs. I suspect, strongly, Treliving was told ‘we’re going for it. Mandate: make the playoffs’. This is also consistent with the organization’s direction since 2004. If there’s a chance, a hope, the Flames are going for it. I’ll say the rebuild under Treliving wasn’t short cut by Treliving, it was short cut by Burke/ownership. So that’s the context Treliving worked under. All things considered, I think he did a decent job and the claims of him being an idiot are misguided. Treliving wasn’t the idiot, or at the least, he wasn’t the only one.

Secondly, my recollection of what Conroy said is that ‘on some things, Treliving made the decision alone’. Operative word ‘some’. If Treliving did make all the decisions along then what were Conroy, Burke, Maloney, Pascal, Smow, and the scouts doing? Why were the Flames paying these people hundreds of thousands of dollars? To just be warm bodies in chairs? And if all that is true, why would we think Conroy is a good candidate to be a good GM if all he’s been doing is sitting in his office playing candy crush or whatever he was doing. I’d bet Treliving acted alone on the Peters hire, but let’s not forget Conroy’s day with Glen Gulutzan hiking the Grouse Grind. I’d bet Conroy had input on that decision which is widely considered to be a flop. And let’s also remember that Conroy had been quite vocal is his belief that Gaudreau was going to stay.

I guess my expectations on hockey discourse on a fan forum are a bit high but the whole narrative that this GM or that GM is an idiot is a pretty low bar. We all know the criticisms of Treliving and most of them are warranted. That said, he did a lot of good too which is far less acknowledged.

Lastly with regard to Treliving and nepotism with the Leafs, that’s just a weak/lazy/stupid argument all together. Not that you said it, but others have. Frankly it sounds a bit like scorned ex-lover.

[TOfan]

Unable to edit my previous post for some reason but intended to say Burke was POHO for Treliving’s first 4 years. So the presence of a vet GM was very much around. Maloney too after that.

[Heavy Jack]

Treliving overstayed his welcome by 3 years and it cost us big time. No denying he did some big things for Calgary but he also had some draft fortune in the later rounds with guys like Gaudreau and Mangipane hitting; not committing long term to Tkachuk and Gaudreau sewered the team and slammed the window shut on a pretty disappointing generation of the flames that didn’t get much done in the playoffs. It’s pretty easy to see why flames fans in general would be disappointed, BT bungled the solid job he had done building probably the most stylistically exciting core of the flames in multiple generations with Sutter playing a hand in that as well. I get that it’s a tiresome complaint at this point but Brad has earned the ire of flames fans IMO.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Treliving overstayed his welcome by 3 years and it cost us big time. No denying he did some big things for Calgary but he also had some draft fortune in the later rounds with guys like Gaudreau and Mangipane hitting; not committing long term to Tkachuk and Gaudreau sewered the team and slammed the window shut on a pretty disappointing generation of the flames that didn’t get much done in the playoffs. It’s pretty easy to see why flames fans in general would be disappointed, BT bungled the solid job he had done building probably the most stylistically exciting core of the flames in multiple generations with Sutter playing a hand in that as well. I get that it’s a tiresome complaint at this point but Brad has earned the ire of flames fans IMO.

Nearly every single GM inherit’s something of value, so that criticism could be applied to virtually every single GM ever.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Jankowski was a Weisbroad pick not Feaster.

Feaster let the hockey ops do the work. He was just the facilitator. He even mentioned they had a trade worked out for the 1st rounder but was told to keep it.

His biggest weakness was he was a pushover and almost signed Brad Richard’s b

[heep223]

Oh man I forgot about the Brad Richards thing

[Locke]

I do think at times people forget why Feaster was really here.

We had to shed Bouwmeester, Tanguay, Regehr and Iginla.

He was here as a 'Sacrificial Lamb.'

To do the dirty wet-work no one else was capable of and then...move along.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Locke

I do think at times people forget why Feaster was really here.

We had to shed Bouwmeester, Tanguay, Regehr and Iginla.

He was here as a 'Sacrificial Lamb.'

To do the dirty wet-work no one else was capable of and then...move along.

That is likely true, but his returns on those assets were brutal.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Locke

I do think at times people forget why Feaster was really here.

We had to shed Bouwmeester, Tanguay, Regehr and Iginla.

He was here as a 'Sacrificial Lamb.'

To do the dirty wet-work no one else was capable of and then...move along.

…and recruit Brad Richard’s?

Again, I think your understanding of actual events is a bit loose.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Locke

I do think at times people forget why Feaster was really here.

We had to shed Bouwmeester, Tanguay, Regehr and Iginla.

He was here as a 'Sacrificial Lamb.'

To do the dirty wet-work no one else was capable of and then...move along.

He was the worst guy for that job. We got destroyed in those trades. A crappy lawyer we should have never hired. and his Cup*

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

That is likely true, but his returns on those assets were brutal.

Yeah. Because thats the second edge of the sword.

When people know you're there to do a specific job...they're gonna low-ball you. Because they know that you have no investment and ergo no consequences.

It was a failed experiment.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Feaster wasn’t here to tear the team down.

He sold the owners on making the playoffs and everything backfired on him.

Brad Richard’s was his big play.

It’s unfortunate he was the gm that made those rebuild trades because he was a pushover. That is the reason Burke canned him. He even said so that the trades are a big reason he got fired.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah. Because thats the second edge of the sword.

When people know you're there to do a specific job...they're gonna low-ball you. Because they know that you have no investment and ergo no consequences.

It was a failed experiment.

I think Conroy was placed in a similar situation and has done miles better.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Feaster wasn’t here to tear the team down.

He sold the owners on making the playoffs and everything backfired on him.

Brad Richard’s was his big play.

It’s unfortunate he was the gm that made those rebuild trades because he was a pushover. That is the reason Burke canned him. He even said so that the trades are a big reason he got fired.

Ryan O’Rielly too.

Make no mistake, Feaster was brought here to win/stay competitive. Same as every other GM.

Conroy might be the only one who has been given the grace to take an intentional step backwards and that likely has to do with trying to build a competitive team for the new building. Once the Flames are in there, I’ll bet the exact same ‘win now’ moves will be made. If Conroy isn’t able to turn these next three years into a young core ready to compete, ready yourself for the same or similar results we saw under Treliving.

[Johnny Makarov]

Of course didn't he want to trade ALL our draft picks that year to Colorado for MacKinnon?

That would have worked!

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Of course didn't he want to trade ALL our draft picks that year to Colorado for MacKinnon?

That would have worked!

I think it was the three first round picks for 1OA.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I have no relationship to Treliving.

I’ve been fairly consistent that I think Treliving deserves criticism. Every GM does because none of them hit 1.000 whether it be the draft, development, trades, signings, etc. No e of them are perfect and you can rest assured Craig Conroy will have his fair share of blemishes as well.

My defence of Treliving has more to do with the very low bar being set here by many/most. Treliving was a GM with some good and some bad. It seems though the fasionable thing to do here is label Treliving an idiot. Again, very low bar comments.

I’ll also point out a couple things relative to your own post, which was mostly fair. When Trelivjng was hired it was under a seasoned vet GM in Brian Burke. Burke also was part of the picture for Treliving’s first I think it also worth bearing in mind that any Toronto Maple Leaf fan over the age of 20 should be able to tell you that when Burke was hired by the Leafs he famously said ‘I’m not a patient man’ meaning any thought/hope of a rebuild was going to be short lived. So, it should be no surprise that the Flames followed suit in Treliving’s first year when the made they playoffs. I suspect, strongly, Treliving was told ‘we’re going for it. Mandate: make the playoffs’. This is also consistent with the organization’s direction since 2004. If there’s a chance, a hope, the Flames are going for it. I’ll say the rebuild under Treliving wasn’t short cut by Treliving, it was short cut by Burke/ownership. So that’s the context Treliving worked under. All things considered, I think he did a decent job and the claims of him being an idiot are misguided. Treliving wasn’t the idiot, or at the least, he wasn’t the only one.

Secondly, my recollection of what Conroy said is that ‘on some things, Treliving made the decision alone’. Operative word ‘some’. If Treliving did make all the decisions along then what were Conroy, Burke, Maloney, Pascal, Smow, and the scouts doing? Why were the Flames paying these people hundreds of thousands of dollars? To just be warm bodies in chairs? And if all that is true, why would we think Conroy is a good candidate to be a good GM if all he’s been doing is sitting in his office playing candy crush or whatever he was doing. I’d bet Treliving acted alone on the Peters hire, but let’s not forget Conroy’s day with Glen Gulutzan hiking the Grouse Grind. I’d bet Conroy had input on that decision which is widely considered to be a flop. And let’s also remember that Conroy had been quite vocal is his belief that Gaudreau was going to stay.

I guess my expectations on hockey discourse on a fan forum are a bit high but the whole narrative that this GM or that GM is an idiot is a pretty low bar. We all know the criticisms of Treliving and most of them are warranted. That said, he did a lot of good too which is far less acknowledged.

Lastly with regard to Treliving and nepotism with the Leafs, that’s just a weak/lazy/stupid argument all together. Not that you said it, but others have. Frankly it sounds a bit like scorned ex-lover.

Definitely a lot of unfair comments towards Brad. I think you're observations are excellent, but I think that they would be better received if you didn't poke at them with a stick. I agree with you Brurke likely set the tone with his impatient agenda I also think he had a philosophy that endorsed big teams which shifted a focus away from adding a little more speed and skill to compliment the forward ranks.

On Conroy, I don't know if I could find the interview but someone else may remember it. Conroy specifically said that Brad spent a lot of time in his office, and tended to make decisions on his own. He said that he and Pascal got to be a lot more involved under Burke as he would send them out to accomplish certain things. Something he said Brad didn't do. That doesn't mean they weren't keeping busy and working with scouts and scouting themselves. I think Brooke let them be assistant general managers by empowering them to be a part of day-to-day operations and more involved in the process.

Conroy basically said as GM he wanted to involve the management team in the decision making process more.

If those were Conway's observations, maybe he was seeing something that is stunting opportunities for growth and progress?

Anyway it is exciting to see some new approaches and ideas. Hopefully the Flames will get this rebuild right. Acquiring through trade and the draft, 2 elite producing defenseman is quite shrewd. An excellent way to kick off a rebuild!

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don’t know how anyone can look at the body of work of Button and Feaster and say Treliving is the worst.

Button also tried to trade Iggy for Peca.