[Trade] Erik Karlsson to Penguins

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Yeah I've followed the Panthers since Barkov got drafted. I try not to be an a-hole about it and also feel like I can share some info about them here that maybe people aren't aware of. But you seem to have an urge to take a dump on them anytime possible and especially on the ex-flames.

And by the way you calling anyone, I mean literally anyone else biased is the definition of irony.

So you aren't biased towards the Panthers? lol

when did I say I wasn't biased towards the Flames...I think most of us are. How is this irony?

Panthers will be an average team next season IMO...90-105 points

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

You're not bias for the Flames, you're a full on blinded homer and the fact you're calling anyone else out on their bias is just childish.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Well one guy scored 101 points while Neal had a career low 7 and Lucic was a 4th line face puncher not sure how it's similar.

Also that's 3 100 point players traded the last 2 off season is this a first?

I'm not comparing the actual players, I'm comparing the situations. You're trading bad contracts for bad contracts. The upside of this deal is that Karlsson has real potential to be productive. Most likely, not 10 million dollars productive, but more productive than the contracts traded. Just like Lucic was never worth 5 million but he was more useful and productive than Neal. Obviously way higher upside woth Karlsson but I'm saying posters are focusing way to much on Karlsson in isolation and not considering the alternative where they don't make the trade and they have similar money tied up in Granlund and Petry. We here were always fans of the Lucic trade because he brought more than Neal and I think the same will definitely happen with Karlsson even if he isn't a point per game player.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Hackey

He's basically guaranteed to be overpaid but is he more productive than the guys he was traded for? Thats what matters. This is kind of like a Neal for Lucic type deal in a way.

No it’s not
The Pens actually wants Karlsson
The Flames just wanted to get rid of Neal, what they got in Lucic is irrelevant
Neal played like #### before the trade, Karlsson won the Norris

Not even remotely close

[DJones]

Guy just won the Norris. This isn't like swapping #### as NEal/Lucic was.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by DJones

Guy just won the Norris. This isn't like swapping #### as NEal/Lucic was.

EK having 25 goals is impressive to me, all the highlights I saw were from him outside the dots firing a wrist or slap shot, his shooting % was miles ahead of any other leading defencemen.
Pittsburg just became a better team, I don't see how anyone can think otherwise.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Well one guy scored 101 points while Neal had a career low 7 and Lucic was a 4th line face puncher not sure how it's similar.

Also that's 3 100 point players traded the last 2 off season is this a first?

Well I heard that if you only do it once it doesn't make you a 100 point player, so only Tkachuk is a true 100 point player

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

You're not bias for the Flames, you're a full on blinded homer and the fact you're calling anyone else out on their bias is just childish.

I wasn't calling anyone out...he is a fan and is biased

I don't think many people expect the Panthers to be a cup contender. Oddsmakers certainly don't.

Anyway this place is stupid...Flames fan site where the biggest crime is being a Flames fan.

Enjoy your summer guys...

[1qqaaz]

As someone who is turning 30 soon, the Penguin's veteran roster is inspiring.

[1Nite]

So has this trade gone through, because I can't believe that Karlsson didn't veto it, as everyone knows he was waiting to go to edmonton, heard from a guy at a juice bar that he would even pay 3/4 of his own salary, just for the chance to play with the great mcDoofus.

[GioforPM]

Short of trying to convince Crosby and Malkin to waive NMCs and rebuild quickly, this is really Pitt's only path. I doubt it will work, but whatever. I think Hanifin would have been a better target, given his age he could have been part of a transition. But obviously he's not as flashy an acquisition as Karlsson.

They still have a cap issue though. They are currently right against it - actually a small amount over. And they have Guenztel on LTIR (which should end about 5 games in apparently).

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Short of trying to convince Crosby and Malkin to waive NMCs and rebuild quickly, this is really Pitt's only path. I doubt it will work, but whatever. I think Hanifin would have been a better target, given his age he could have been part of a transition. But obviously he's not as flashy an acquisition as Karlsson.

They still have a cap issue though. They are currently right against it - actually a small amount over. And they have Guenztel on LTIR (which should end about 5 games in apparently).

If nothing else, the organization owes those guys one last shot. Like Boston did with their legendary core. They’re facing a rebuild either way, and they’ve had tons of recent success. Worth it.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Short of trying to convince Crosby and Malkin to waive NMCs and rebuild quickly, this is really Pitt's only path. I doubt it will work, but whatever. I think Hanifin would have been a better target, given his age he could have been part of a transition. But obviously he's not as flashy an acquisition as Karlsson.

They still have a cap issue though. They are currently right against it - actually a small amount over. And they have Guenztel on LTIR (which should end about 5 games in apparently).

I agree with the first paragraph, but the cap issues are overblown.

They're over the cap the same way the Flames are. If you include Guentzel they have 13F, 7D, 2G and they're 80k over. They can always go with a 21 player roster, bank some cap space, and then use it to call up an extra player for long road trips.

In comparison, the Flames are 220k over, with 12F, 8D, 2G. It's not ideal but it's not exactly an issue either.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I agree with the first paragraph, but the cap issues are overblown.

They're over the cap the same way the Flames are. If you include Guentzel they have 13F, 7D, 2G and they're 80k over. They can always go with a 21 player roster, bank some cap space, and then use it to call up an extra player for long road trips.

In comparison, the Flames are 220k over, with 12F, 8D, 2G. It's not ideal but it's not exactly an issue either.

Unless I’m reading it wrong CF has them over now without Guentzel. With him they are millions over.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

If nothing else, the organization owes those guys one last shot. Like Boston did with their legendary core. They’re facing a rebuild either way, and they’ve had tons of recent success. Worth it.

Absolutely. As a flames fan, I would give a core group all the time it wants at the end of their careers if they had brought in 3 cups to the flames in the span of 10 years. And they did it while signed to very team friendly deals. As long as they wanted to keep playing and going for it…. I would support the team/management trying to get them another cup.

They could all be 45 years old and putting up less than 0.5 points per game and I’d still support them as the core of the team. Guess that’s how desperate I am as a fan to see that kind of success here in Calgary. Give us a decade of dominance and championships and I would give them endless leeway to keep playing at the end of their careers.


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[Sylvanfan]

When you have legacy type stars...the ideal of trading them to maximize assets is better in theory than it is in reality. These guys won 3 cups and made 1 other and at least Crosby and Malkin are both making less than they still produce in my opinion. These are guys who likelyonly want to play their entire career in one city and sentimental me thinks they have earned that right.

So I can forgive Pittsburgh for adding another guy who's a win now add that could hurt them 4 years from now. When these 4 are done they'll be awful for 5 or 6 years and need to rebuild like Anaheim or Chicago currently are. Sid has two years left on his deal which gets him to 20 seasons played, so it's possible he's down to his last two years. So might as well go for it and deal with the consequences of it not working. Chicago did sort of do this when they added Jones and Fleury for Kane and Toews last two years, but they had been a non factor for 3 years prior to that and Toews was finished, plus those two ate up a lot more cap. This could fail spectacularly...or the longer offseason to recover might let these older guys have one final go. But with legacy type players at the end who are this age I think going for it makes sense.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

When you have legacy type stars...the ideal of trading them to maximize assets is better in theory than it is in reality. These guys won 3 cups and made 1 other and at least Crosby and Malkin are both making less than they still produce in my opinion. These are guys who likelyonly want to play their entire career in one city and sentimental me thinks they have earned that right.

So I can forgive Pittsburgh for adding another guy who's a win now add that could hurt them 4 years from now. When these 4 are done they'll be awful for 5 or 6 years and need to rebuild like Anaheim or Chicago currently are. Sid has two years left on his deal which gets him to 20 seasons played, so it's possible he's down to his last two years. So might as well go for it and deal with the consequences of it not working. Chicago did sort of do this when they added Jones and Fleury for Kane and Toews last two years, but they had been a non factor for 3 years prior to that and Toews was finished, plus those two ate up a lot more cap. This could fail spectacularly...or the longer offseason to recover might let these older guys have one final go. But with legacy type players at the end who are this age I think going for it makes sense.

I kind of wonder what that legacy star status will mean when Crosby's next contract comes (I think he will stay a few more years - two at least to match Malkin). I suppose there's a good chance he takes 8.7.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Unless I’m reading it wrong CF has them over now without Guentzel. With him they are millions over.

Yeah you're reading it wrong. Without Guentzel their roster + Petry + Johnson comes down to $77.58M. Players on LTIR count towards the cap, so with Guentzel it comes down to $83.58M, which puts them $80k over.

If Guentzel were to go on LTIR, they would be able to exceed the cap by approximately(depending on how close they are to the cap) his cap hit of 6M, for that duration.

The same way Kylington's $2.5M counts towards CGY's caphit on capfriendly.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Also that's 3 100 point players traded the last 2 off season is this a first?

Gretzky, Carson, Bullard all traded in the same month (two in the same deal of course).

[blankall]

I don't see this as bad for the Pens in any way. I'm actually a little blown away at the value they got. The main issue with Karlsson is his contract. However, there was some retention and its only 4 more years left. Karlsson just turned 33 and is likely to play at a #1 d-man level for the next 2 years and possibly longer.

The Pens have Crosby/Malkin looking to do a victory lap, so are in a situation where, no matter what, they aren't rebuilding for at least 2 years.

Worst case scenario, the Pens have 2 years of overpaid Karlsson, that they can probably retain on and still move.

Plus somehow they managed to get rid of a bunch of their own cap dumps.