2023/2024 English Premier League Thread

[Slava]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

I was as well

The system you can see in place already, it probably takes awhile until it becomes stronger defensively, but the pressing is gonna really pay off. Reminds me of early poch spurs or early klopp liverpool. There will definitely be goals both ways first half of the season

Bissouma was great as well, 1 game shows how criminal it was how conte handled him last year. 12 months ago he was the most highly thought of cm at Brighton and conte's fossil football made him look bad.

Maddison and udogie looked really exciting

This season imo is just about implementing Ange ball, no expectations

Yeah and the other bright light was VDV. He only had a few runs with the team and I was kind of surprised to see him get the full 90 right off the bat, but he did look pretty solid (albeit in comparison to Dier/Davies/Sanchez)

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah and the other bright light was VDV. He only had a few runs with the team and I was kind of surprised to see him get the full 90 right off the bat, but he did look pretty solid (albeit in comparison to Dier/Davies/Sanchez)

I'm really hoping Sessegnon comes back strong from his surgery. Kid was looking like a big piece of the future until he got derailed by injuries.

[d_phaneuf]

United handling this so poorly

https://twitter.com/user/status/1691918355551404538

[MegaErtz]

"I don't want to have sex", to which Greenwood replies: "I don't give a blank what you want ... I'm going to blank you, you blank ... I don't care if you want to have sex with me ... I asked you politely, and you wouldn't do it, so what else do you want me to do?" Greenwood later says: "Push me again one more time and watch what happens to you."

Surely they're aware of the amount of commercial revenue they're going to lose if they actually bring him back? I'll personally be emailing every one of theirs sponsors to advise that they've lost my business permanently.

[Senator Clay Davis]

They almost assuredly won't lose any commercial revenue. It's nice to believe the world isn't a terrible place, but it is. Absolute worst case Ontario for them is they might see some declines in matchday revenue, but it wouldn't shock me even slightly if they ended up seeing an uptick in jersey sales from people buying his jersey. Obligatory "social media isn't real life", but it seems it's about 50/50 with a slight lean of support for him coming back.

[devo22]

there's no way in hell he should ever be allowed back, but since it's modern world football he obviously will be.

This will just add to my ongoing emotional detachment from both United and world football as a whole. Maybe getting older plays into it, but the general state of world football seems to become more and more disgusting each year. The prospects of United being sold to the Qatari and welcoming back Greenwood are sickening to me, but I guess that's how it is these days. I'm still a United fan, but the emotional connection is certainly on a different level than it was in the past.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

I was as well

The system you can see in place already, it probably takes awhile until it becomes stronger defensively, but the pressing is gonna really pay off. Reminds me of early poch spurs or early klopp liverpool. There will definitely be goals both ways first half of the season

Bissouma was great as well, 1 game shows how criminal it was how conte handled him last year. 12 months ago he was the most highly thought of cm at Brighton and conte's fossil football made him look bad.

Maddison and udogie looked really exciting

This season imo is just about implementing Ange ball, no expectations

LOL

Sure it was Conte’s fault that Bissouma couldnt control a ball last season or figure out how to play in a 2 man midfield.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Spurs

LOL

Sure it was Conte’s fault that Bissouma couldnt control a ball last season or figure out how to play in a 2 man midfield.

I feel like several players were terrified of making a mistake under Conte, and that led to all kinds of problems. The entire mood under Ange is lighter and yoh can see that. It's not perfect, and like someone posted earlier, we're going to get scored on a lot, but there's a major difference between three straight negative managers and a progressive one.

Oh, and Bissouma was injured for a lot of last season as well.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by devo22

there's no way in hell he should ever be allowed back, but since it's modern world football he obviously will be.

This will just add to my ongoing emotional detachment from both United and world football as a whole. Maybe getting older plays into it, but the general state of world football seems to become more and more disgusting each year. The prospects of United being sold to the Qatari and welcoming back Greenwood are sickening to me, but I guess that's how it is these days. I'm still a United fan, but the emotional connection is certainly on a different level than it was in the past.

I don't know how this can be dealt with. I think there's a pretty obvious culture issue in the game though. I have no idea how a guy like Partey played the whole season and nothing was said, when it's plainly obvious that he faces these allegations. The Greenwood allegations are even more blunt (in the sense of the video), and I agree with you that he'll be back. I'm not suggesting for a second that Spurs would handle this any different or better, to be clear.

Clubs have a dilemma though. If players are accused and seemingly did these heinous things, but legally beat the charges, can they cut them loose? And if you cut them loose, how fast would another club swoop in and take them for free? It's gross, and morally bankrupt. But at the same time, everyone just looks past these issues and says (basically) "great football, and amazing team...shame there's that guy who raped people, but what can you do?"

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Slava

Clubs have a dilemma though. If players are accused and seemingly did these heinous things, but legally beat the charges, can they cut them loose? And if you cut them loose, how fast would another club swoop in and take them for free? It's gross, and morally bankrupt. But at the same time, everyone just looks past these issues and says (basically) "great football, and amazing team...shame there's that guy who raped people, but what can you do?"

well if the legal outcome was all that mattered, he'd have been reintegrated months ago. It's obviously much more complicated than that, and at least for me, the legal argument means very little. Charges can get dropped for a number of reasons, and we've all heard the tape. Playing in the PL, being in the spotlight and earning a lot of money should be a privilege, not a right ... and at least in my opinion, somebody who treats women like this should not have that privilege anymore.

as for "morally bankrupt", I always go back to Arizona Cardinals GM Steve Keim once saying "if Hannibal Lector ran a 4.3, we'd diagnose an eating disorder". I get it. Still ####ing sucks though.

[Barnet Flame]

Just because something is legal - it doesn’t mean something is moral.

There is nothing about the other thing involving an international player on a North London Club who represented his team at the last WC because it is still illegal to mention their name here.

Football is clearly a business and they’ll do whatever is best for business over all other considerations.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Slava

I feel like several players were terrified of making a mistake under Conte, and that led to all kinds of problems. The entire mood under Ange is lighter and yoh can see that. It's not perfect, and like someone posted earlier, we're going to get scored on a lot, but there's a major difference between three straight negative managers and a progressive one.

I don't disagree that many players seemed terrified, but I put that on them and their weak mentality not on Conte. Players had no problem making mistakes and performing when Conte was winning titles at Juve, Inter and Chelsea. It was only when he came to Spurs that these magical problems that existed before him happened and was all his fault.

I certainly don't blame his "dinosaur tactics" that won Serie A 2 seasons ago as the problem that Bissouma struggled to do the very basics of football last season.

I think we will have a more "positive" feeling around the team while getting lesser results than we did under Conte and because our fans are so weak and have such little ambition they will celebrate it.

Oh, and Bissouma was injured for a lot of last season as well.

I think this was likely the biggest factor in Bissouma's season last year, he seemed to never really get over missing time and the effects of Covid in the summer and never was able to fit in.

[MegaErtz]

People have charges dropped all the time as these types of situations are usually very hard to prove. Sure, there are false accusations. Ched Evans is a free man without a criminal record, despite being convicted of rape in 2012. Andy Carroll was convicted of beating his girlfriend and Liverpool bought him a month after.

What makes this different is that the tape is widely available, and most of us have seen it. It doesn't matter if the victim, or alleged victim, has now decided not to cooperate. There's nobody who can listen to it and say with a straight face that Mason Greenwood isn't a piece of garbage. If he wasn't a good footballer, they'd have cut his ass and paid out the remainder of his contract a long time ago.

What's going to be entertaining is watching all the journalist ask the players and manager if they'd allow their own teenage daughters to be left alone with Mason Greenwood.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I don't disagree that many players seemed terrified, but I put that on them and their weak mentality not on Conte. Players had no problem making mistakes and performing when Conte was winning titles at Juve, Inter and Chelsea. It was only when he came to Spurs that these magical problems that existed before him happened and was all his fault.

I certainly don't blame his "dinosaur tactics" that won Serie A 2 seasons ago as the problem that Bissouma struggled to do the very basics of football last season.

I think we will have a more "positive" feeling around the team while getting lesser results than we did under Conte and because our fans are so weak and have such little ambition they will celebrate it.



I think this was likely the biggest factor in Bissouma's season last year, he seemed to never really get over missing time and the effects of Covid in the summer and never was able to fit in.

Didnt say anyone complain about conte in italy or not being a good coach

But he was checked out last season, he didnt change the shape once, he barely integrated last years new signings, refused to play spence when royal was giving nothing

Also just look at the average positioning of spurs players last weekend vs last year, the midfield were 10-20 yards higher with more freedom. Of course bissouma is going to play better when hes not stuck in a double pivot who seemingly wasnt allowed to cross the half way line in the 1st half of games or until down 2 goals.

Conte has a great history but his tactics and lack of adjustment was garbage last season.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

What's going to be entertaining is watching all the journalist ask the players and manager if they'd allow their own teenage daughters to be left alone with Mason Greenwood.

They arent going to do that though

[devo22]

maybe, just maybe, the process of categorizing charities as "hostile" should be an indication that you're on the wrong side of the argument. But what do I know.

According to sources with knowledge of United’s planning, who remain anonymous because they are not authorised to speak publicly, the club’s preparations for Greenwood’s return also included an assessment of the expected sentiment of external figures, listing individual football pundits, journalists and politicians and stating whether they would be for or against Greenwood’s reintegration. The planning divided these people into categories to the effect of “supportive”, “open-minded” or “hostile”. The club’s document listed a series of domestic abuse charities assumed to be “hostile”.

https://theathletic.com/4786779/2023...ted-charities/

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

Didnt say anyone complain about conte in italy or not being a good coach

But he was checked out last season, he didnt change the shape once, he barely integrated last years new signings, refused to play spence when royal was giving nothing

Also just look at the average positioning of spurs players last weekend vs last year, the midfield were 10-20 yards higher with more freedom. Of course bissouma is going to play better when hes not stuck in a double pivot who seemingly wasnt allowed to cross the half way line in the 1st half of games or until down 2 goals.

Conte has a great history but his tactics and lack of adjustment was garbage last season.

Before he left we were competing for 4th, after finishing 4th the season before, now fans hoping for "good football" and maybe 8th under Super Ange. He was so checked out and stubborn that he was able to get better results before he got here, after he got here and what we will see going forward.

Players didn't go over halfway because everytime we did the opposition would easily score, on the weekend we gave up 2 goals and 3 more absolute sitters by playing so high. So fans can get excited by it but it will result in worse results than what we saw under Conte.

Conte's job wasn't to provide "exciting" losses, it was to win games and finish as high as possible, that is what he did better than anyone else could given the absolute garbage he was given for players.

[devo22]

Wataru Endo signs for Liverpool from VfB Stuttgart ... that breaks my heart. One of my favourite Stuttgart players ever (they've always been my #2 behind United), so seeing him put on that shirt will be a sad thing. Then again, I'm happy for him to go to the PL and make that step. Great fee for Stuttgart as well (€19m plus 4 in add-ons), given that he's 30 years old and had one year left on his contract.

[The Big Chill]

I’m excited for Endo, all the Stuttgart fans absolutely love him. I knew nothing about him before the links to him started a day or two ago, but he seems to be exactly what we need. Hopefully he can transition smoothly and give us a couple of good seasons. It will be no easy task for him to jump right in without a preseason to get used to the club.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I’m excited for Endo, all the Stuttgart fans absolutely love him. I knew nothing about him before the links to him started a day or two ago, but he seems to be exactly what we need. Hopefully he can transition smoothly and give us a couple of good seasons. It will be no easy task for him to jump right in without a preseason to get used to the club.

yeah, nothing but love from Stuttgart fans. Not just because his late goal against Cologne kept them up last year, but in general, he's been Stuttgarts best player for years and it hasn't been particularly close. Bit surprised that it took so long for bigger clubs to come for him, in all honesty. Solid defensive midfielder in all aspects of the game, very smart player. Was the captain too, really likeable guy. It's possible that the step up from Stuttgart to Liverpool will be a bit too steep, but I do think it's a smart signing for you.