[Signing] Coyotes sign Valimaki to 1 year contract extension

[ComixZone]

It boils down to the team doing something stupid. They prioritized the short term (dumb) and they prioritized bad veteran depth over youthful depth because old = safe. It was poor player assessment and really exposed a bad bias that this team holds.

We've seen it with our forwards all season.

Stone should not have been the one elevated to play to start the season. It should have been Valimaki. Hell, the Flames didn't even want to play Ruzicka but management stood up for him and didn't waive and haven't waived him all season - so why did they waive Valimaki? I mean...they've kept Mackey just sitting around doing friggin' nothing all season. The team would be healthier had they just rolled with Mackey and Valimaki as the 6 and 7 with them battling all season - but nope, they wanted old and safe, even if it's bad.

It should have been:

Hanifin - Andersson
Weegar - Tanev
Valimaki/Mackey - Zadorov

or

Hanifin - Andersson
Zadorov - Tanev
Valimaki/Mackey - Weegar

It just should have been. Flames screwed up their assessment and played into their own bias that "old = safe".

It's an absolute L.

[dino7c]

They waived him because of his high salary...even the Yotes thought it was too high seeing they gave him a paycut for next year

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They waived him because of his high salary...even the Yotes thought it was too high seeing they gave him a paycut for next year

Yeah, it undoubtedly factored in...but they did nothing with the salary cap space. Even if it was absolutely crucial cap space, they screwed up earlier in the year when they signed Kevin Rooney because again old = safe.

[TheIronMaiden]

Valimaki would not be the difference between sucess and failure on this team. This team is losing because 1. Markstrom has be bad 2. Huderdeau has been bad 3. Kadri has been bad

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Agree.
Add Sonny Milano to that list of bad training camp/better season than some of the players kept on the team

Sonny Milano has 10 goals. People need to get over it.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Valimaki would not be the difference between sucess and failure on this team. This team is losing because 1. Markstrom has be bad 2. Huderdeau has been bad 3. Kadri has been bad

This is kind of a weak argument I find, and you'll see it all over the forum.

"The team isn't losing because of only player X, Y, Z,".

No, but the collection of bad decisions is. You have Valimaki, maybe you have a few more goals. Maybe he's a good option or emerges as a PP specialist on the point, something this team desperately needs. Maybe he can absorb some minutes in other key situations.

I don't think the Flames or any team nails every decision and quite frankly I don't expect them to. I'm not super overly upset about the Valimaki call in the first place, even.

But to me, the shockingly obvious and striking thing is, the NHL is moving younger and younger players are emerging faster than ever and arguably making the case for being better players overall. There just isn't that much that separates the vets and the younger players these days, aside from draft position, contract status and name recognition. But when it comes down to play on the ice and results? Nah, the Flames have prioritized the wrong group.

[PepsiFree]

I see it more of a “Paul Bryon L” and less of a “Sam Bennett L.”

Valimaki shares most of the blame for not making the team, but the Flames could have just given him the spot instead of risk losing him, I guess. I’ll be surprised if he’s more than an bottom 3 defenceman on an average team, but that won’t stop people from counting him as a loss, and is one, but I don’t think there’s much criticism to go around about it. Sometimes that’s how things go.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ped

Sonny Milano has 10 goals. People need to get over it.

1 since he signed his extension

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This is kind of a weak argument I find, and you'll see it all over the forum.

"The team isn't losing because of only player X, Y, Z,".

No, but the collection of bad decisions is. You have Valimaki, maybe you have a few more goals. Maybe he's a good option or emerges as a PP specialist on the point, something this team desperately needs. Maybe he can absorb some minutes in other key situations.

I don't think the Flames or any team nails every decision and quite frankly I don't expect them to. I'm not super overly upset about the Valimaki call in the first place, even.

But to me, the shockingly obvious and striking thing is, the NHL is moving younger and younger players are emerging faster than ever and arguably making the case for being better players overall. There just isn't that much that separates the vets and the younger players these days, aside from draft position, contract status and name recognition. But when it comes down to play on the ice and results? Nah, the Flames have prioritized the wrong group.

We are arguing the same thing. Instead of prioritizing futures and young players the BT and the flames management chose to tie up 17.5 Million in cap space for two forwards who are 30 and 33 next season.

Sure prudent management of 5/6 d men and 11/12 forwards would push a playoff team to a contender, but the bottom line is a team is only as good as their best players, working around the edges makes a cumulative benefit you're absolutely right, but the best damn 3rd D pairing in the league won't make a difference if the top line ( and thus the powerplay) are not producing.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, it undoubtedly factored in...but they did nothing with the salary cap space. Even if it was absolutely crucial cap space, they screwed up earlier in the year when they signed Kevin Rooney because again old = safe.

Most of Rooney's cap hit is buried in the AHL and doesn't count

A team desperate to get to the cap floor and to lose was the only waiver claim for this guy....an they gave him a paycut for next season.

Not sure it's the hill we need to die on

Vali wasn't even a good AHLer for the Flames and his preseason was terrible. Seems like he doesn't handle pressure well.

[Samonadreau]

If Valimaki sticks in Arizona, great for him. He wasn't moving the needle here.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

If Valimaki sticks in Arizona, great for him. He wasn't moving the needle here.

Sure, but maybe the Flames should do a little self-evaluation to understand why some players do or don’t work out here. That way in future they can adapt and not squander young talent that might be there.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Sure, but maybe the Flames should do a little self-evaluation to understand why some players do or don’t work out here. That way in future they can adapt and not squander young talent that might be there.

it really remains to be seen if that is the case here

let me know when he is having a positive impact on a team actually trying to win games

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Sure, but maybe the Flames should do a little self-evaluation to understand why some players do or don’t work out here. That way in future they can adapt and not squander young talent that might be there.

Do they not do that?

I think every team has players that do or do not work out for that team, but go on to perform differently on other teams. Do we have an indication that the Flames are unique here?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dino7c

it really remains to be seen if that is the case here

let me know when he is having a positive impact on a team actually trying to win games

He is. Now.

He's posting multiple points a night on a terrible team helping them get their wins and their OTLs.

Tell me how Michael Stone is helping his team win games? Tell me how Nikita Zadorov is helping his team win games?

Weird to paint all players on a rebuilding team as terrible (if that's what you're doing) because they aren't single handedly making the team win games.

I don't know - the Flames aren't a good team. I feel like it's worth a discussion when you see stuff like this where a player can't even get ice time here because he's "terrible" but then goes elsewhere and posts impressive numbers - especially when this bad team (the Flames) are playing veterans who aren't impressive.

[Strange Brew]

Not ready to declare Valimaki any kind of NHLer yetteam . Let's see how he plays on a decent with even the smallest amount of pressure.

If you want to criticize the Flames, it should be the way they manage the cap that prompted them to keep a lesser expensive D on the roster. Valimaki was awful in training camp, but he was still young so there was some hope. You felt good enough about him to sign him to a $2 million AAV deal on August 20,2021. Only one year later you regret it and cut him?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

He is. Now.

He's posting multiple points a night on a terrible team helping them get their wins and their OTLs.

Tell me how Michael Stone is helping his team win games? Tell me how Nikita Zadorov is helping his team win games?

Weird to paint all players on a rebuilding team as terrible (if that's what you're doing) because they aren't single handedly making the team win games.

I don't know - the Flames aren't a good team. I feel like it's worth a discussion when you see stuff like this where a player can't even get ice time here because he's "terrible" but then goes elsewhere and posts impressive numbers - especially when this bad team (the Flames) are playing veterans who aren't impressive.

not at all what I said...it is a lot easier to play when nobody cares if you win or lose though, in fact they would rather you lost.

"multiple points a night"

okay well he is on the ice for more goals against than for but okay that helps you win somehow?

If Zadorov had #1 PP minutes he would have a lot more points too and would still be a +10 player or whatever

You keep going on about how bad the Flames are they are still 15 points better than the Yotes...switch starting goalies and the Flames are probably 25 points better. Yes Zadorov helps you win games more than Valimaki

PP points aren't the be all end all of dmen value in hockey...unless you think Tyson Barrie is one of the leagues best

Vali's -9 is worse than any dman on the Flames roster...including Gilbert, Stone, Mackey

[TheScorpion]

Juuso has been outstanding. Very happy for him. Looks like a top-four guy right now.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Seeing as all of our young players had terrible training camps and then the team went on to be garbage all season...maybe there's a problem with how the team positions younger players and runs training camps? Perhaps there's a problem with how the team/coaching staff assess players and build their lineups?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Not ready to declare Valimaki any kind of NHLer yetteam . Let's see how he plays on a decent with even the smallest amount of pressure.

If you want to criticize the Flames, it should be the way they manage the cap that prompted them to keep a lesser expensive D on the roster. Valimaki was awful in training camp, but he was still young so there was some hope. You felt good enough about him to sign him to a $2 million AAV deal on August 20,2021. Only one year later you regret it and cut him?

1.55M. It is a bit interesting to look back at his signing thread:

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...light=valimaki

Mostly positive feedback on the deal, though certainly a few valid questions/concerns on it.


I agree with the general idea that his 'extra' half-million shouldn't be such a big factor on his roster status, especially since OK's absence could've been a massive opportunity (though Vali failed to seize it).