[Signing] Vladar signs 2 year extension with Flames ($2.2 mil AAV)

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You appear to have cause and effect backwards. When a goalie turns out, after the fact, to be elite in the NHL, chances are that he was ready for NHL games at age 20.

But putting 20-year-old goalies in the NHL doesn't cause them to become elite. That's the same kind of thinking that led the Oilers to think they could make Nurse a $9.25-million defenceman by paying him the money.

Maybe Wolf isn't going to be elite. Maybe he's going to take a slower path to get there. Or maybe, just maybe, he's third on the depth chart behind two good NHL goalies, and there's no point in getting rid of one just to give him a callup.

This isn't my point.
Getting early NHL experience is essential for development.
At this point, it's obvious Wolf has earned an NHL start.

If someone has the AHL, the only way to know whether they are elite is to actually attempt to develop them in the NHL. This is especially true since many goalies randomly play better in the NHL than they ever did in the AHL.

Wolf, for development purposes, absolutely requires an NHL start this year. Barring an extreme drop-off in play at the AHL level.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

This isn't my point.
Getting early NHL experience is essential for development.

No, it isn't.

(What is gratuitously asserted can be gratuitously denied. Ball in your court on this one.)

At this point, it's obvious Wolf has earned an NHL start.

It wasn't obvious to me after watching him in the Wranglers' season opener. That did not look like a goalie with nothing left to work on in the AHL.

But if it is obvious, so what? Which of the goalies ahead of him on the depth chart do you want to get rid of to make room for him?

If someone has the AHL, the only way to know whether they are elite is to actually attempt to develop them in the NHL.

The NHL is not a development league. And frankly, it's highly unlikely that Wolf turns out to be an elite goalie in any circumstances. There's a reason why he was drafted in the seventh round, or have you forgotten about that?

This is especially true since many goalies randomly play better in the NHL than they ever did in the AHL.

Most don't. And if it happens ‘randomly’, then any coach would be an idiot to count on it in a particular case.

[dino7c]

People complaining about Markstroms one bad goal this season or Darryl holding young guys back certainly haven't watched any Wrangler games

[FlamesAreOne]

@TheFourthPeriod

A move is not imminent, but the #Flames have re-engaged in (preliminary) trade talks with some teams about G Dan Vladar. He has a $2.2M cap hit.

Make the move. Let's get Wolf up here.

[442scotty]

It would be just our luck that Vladar gets traded and becomes the next kipper then Wolf can’t get to NHL calibre . Wolf is actually shorter than stated. Long neck makes him taller. I’d gladly be proven wrong but I just can’t see him handling NHL sniping.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

It would be just our luck that Vladar gets traded and becomes the next kipper then Wolf can’t get to NHL calibre . Wolf is actually shorter than stated. Long neck makes him taller. I’d gladly be proven wrong but I just can’t see him handling NHL sniping.

I would be happy for Vladar if he turned into the next Kipper. That said, it doesn't look like the case right now. As an organization you make what you think is the best bet.

Moreover, sometimes a prospect needs a different coach, or a different player to help them round out their game. Look at Bennett, he was a completely different player in CGY. Coach Q, and the players in FLA helped him take the next step in his game, a step he couldn't make here regardless of line-mates and opportunities.

[Major Major]

Eat some salary if it helps to get a 2nd. If he's Kipper, maybe we get a Vlasic out of the deal.

[TheScorpion]

Who knows, but Vladar and Kiprusoff are almost nothing alike stylistically. Vladar reminds me a lot more of Talbot. A fine goalie, but guys like that come and go.

[Delthefunky]

Damn, I like Vladar. I think he's a great backup who still might make it as a starter. We better make damn sure about Wolf if we're trading Darth.

[dammage79]

I'll believe it when I see a trade. Flames need more Coronato type players who can shot. Try for one of those kind of returns.

[Strange Brew]

There was talk that he was viewed as a potential starter around the league, I forget who reported that.

If you don’t play him it kind of refutes that perception. Unless you’re getting league best goaltending.

It’s only been three games obviously, but if you have a backup that you think has starter ability, I’d expect him to be playing 30 to 40% of the games.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There was talk that he was viewed as a potential starter around the league, I forget who reported that.

If you don’t play him it kind of refutes that perception. Unless you’re getting league best goaltending.

It’s only been three games obviously, but if you have a backup that you think has starter ability, I’d expect him to be playing 30 to 40% of the games.

It was Servalli

[Delthefunky]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There was talk that he was viewed as a potential starter around the league, I forget who reported that.

If you don’t play him it kind of refutes that perception. Unless you’re getting league best goaltending.

It’s only been three games obviously, but if you have a backup that you think has starter ability, I’d expect him to be playing 30 to 40% of the games.

I could regret saying it, but Markstrom has had some fantastic sequences in these 3 games so far. I'm OK riding him a couple of more games to build his confidence up and hopefully we get the good version this year. I agree Vladar needs to play though, and we also need to see what Wolf is all about. Not sure how to keep everyone happy.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'll believe it when I see a trade. Flames need more Coronato type players who can shot. Try for one of those kind of returns.

Tyler Toffoli

Sean Monahan?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

I could regret saying it, but Markstrom has had some fantastic sequences in these 3 games so far. I'm OK riding him a couple of more games to build his confidence up and hopefully we get the good version this year. I agree Vladar needs to play though, and we also need to see what Wolf is all about. Not sure how to keep everyone happy.

Easy. Someone gets hurt.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Pagnotta has never been right about the Flames.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Very comfortable moving ahead with the Wolf blueprint.

And I've seen enough of Vladar to feel confident that dealing him won't make us regret it in any kind of unexpected way. Markstrom's been enormously shaky and Vladar hasn't come in and blown any one away or wrestled the net away from Jacob. His confidence looks much higher when he's asked to be the backup/not the main guy. He has the make up to be a reliable backup because he's shown ability to bounce back period to period and that resilience is what separates him from replacement level guys who get bounced around, but not sure I see him being able to take on a starters load.

Wolf had a rough start in preseason but his last game showed that he has it I think. He was resilient there similar to Vladar and closed out the game strong in the shootout, closing the door. He certainly looked like he could hold his own in the start against SJ as well facing nhl shooters. Seen nothing that indicates to me that Wolf doesn't have the mental make up or talent to make the transition. I think he has the natural athleticism and quickness to make up for any size concerns.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ This is funny

Turning wishes in to a narrative

[Johnny Makarov]

WTF? I thought he re-upped for another 2 years! which means byebye Markstrom! lol

Thumbs down bump.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ This is funny

Turning wishes in to a narrative

Wat?