Couldn't you consider the whole civil rights, woman's rights, gay rights, etc an example of cancel culture? They were trying to cancel the status quo of the day.
When people refer to cancel culture, they are referring to the ability to go back into someone's past, find all of the comments they've ever made or things they've done, and then ruin their career as a public figure.
Some times it's definitely warranted, and can result in positive change in the individual they are targeting. Other times, like for example with James Gunn, it's just a witch hunt.
I only replied to what you said. You brought up the n word parts and nothing else
I very clearly brought up numerous issues and you zeroed in on that.
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Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers
It’s not telling at all… it’s bothersome that you keep trying to spin his comments into btimbit being a racist himself. Is that what you’re going for? Dumb.
Repeating it doesn't make it true. I even went back and looked, I see one post where you bring up other issues, and it's something that was edited in after I already replied to it. Forgive me for missing that, guess I'm racist
Guess I don't understand how Joe Rogan is being cancelled then. He's clearly not going to be banished from the internet. Podcasts are basically just an RSS feed. Even if Spotify turfed him, it's still going to be wildly available to anyone who cares.
I won't argue the anti-vaxx part since we have 17 other threads covering that.
I’ve never said he’s being cancelled.
The behaviour I’m criticizing is institutions caving in to campaigns to cleanse their platforms of people whose speech doesn’t meet the purity tests of the self-appointed guardians of public discourse. And the notion that we’re somehow contaminated by virtual proximity to people who don’t share our values. Liberal democracy needs shared public spaces and tolerance of dissent to survive.
Zealots don’t care for messy, liberal democracy, and will be happy to send it off and replace it with the shining new world they conjure in their minds. However, most people do still value it. The problem is by holding their tongue when it’s their allies chipping away at liberal institutions and values, and only calling foul when the other team does it, they’re undermining those institutions and values just the same. And if they eventually crumble, it won’t really matter which team swung the final blow.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 02-07-2022 at 01:22 PM.
Guess I don't understand how Joe Rogan is being cancelled then. He's clearly not going to be banished from the internet. Podcasts are basically just an RSS feed. Even if Spotify turfed him, it's still going to be wildly available to anyone who cares.
You've been in enough of these threads that you should probably have picked up by now that it's not about whether or not you can still speak and have some sort of audience that can find you and listen to you, it's about applying broad social pressure at all times and in all situations to conform to a specific ideology - the whole "chilling effect" hypothesis. Bad stuff will happen to you if you transgress certain moral norms, so to be safe, you steer well clear of them in any context where there are any stakes, even so far as to avoid controversial topics altogether. I certainly do - it's absolutely not worth risking anything to do with my job to even talk about politics in a work setting, for example, when almost everything is a minefield aside from whatever show is popular on TV at the moment. I wasn't working in a professional setting in the late 1990's, but I can pretty much guarantee that for people who were and who supported gay rights, they felt immense pressure to keep that to themselves, lest the intolerant people around them suspect them of being somehow morally deviant or otherwise offside the moral standards at that time.
I suspect (and I have good reason for this suspicion based on actual scientific data about human behaviour) that this actually leads people to be even more extreme in their views and behaviour in low-stakes contexts like the internet, which obviously doesn't help much.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Last edited by CorsiHockeyLeague; 02-07-2022 at 01:21 PM.
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Back from your break I see. Still can’t resist the endorphin hit of those Thanks you get for taking personal shots at other posters. It’s a cheap kind of pleasure, but to a thirsty man in the desert…
Not back from anything, just reading more than I post, while reserving the right to comment on whatever I want, whenever I want, just like anyone else.
I just find it funny that, while rushing to criticize something or support something, people will dilute the issue into one that fits the pre-prepared narrative they're most comfortable with. I mean no truly intelligent person is going to be convinced that the very mention of a position someone else held is a "personal attack." Just because you're so one-note that everything must be boiled down to some rant against leftists and cancel culture, even fighting for the position that "we should equally teach children the good things nazis did" on your way, doesn't mean that all criticism of your increasingly vapid brand of contrarianism is personal.
It's interesting though, right?
I think we can all agree that comparing Black people to apes and saying the n-word is bad, right? We might disagree on the appropriate social punishment for such a thing, but we all agree that if there are things that are generally good and nice and things that are bad and mean, it's in the latter. My personal punishment for Joe Rogan was thinking less of him. Oh well.
So let's look at the situation at hand. Let's say it's mostly a Neil Young vs Joe Rogan thing to start out with. People who like one side or the other will pick a side, people who don't care, won't. Young pulled his music, great. The end. Cancel culture? None to see here. Some other musicians joined him. Cool, that seems to be entirely within their right. No?
Now looking at the racist comments. Rogan asks Spotify to pull a bunch of episodes, so Spotify does that. Spotify also says they aren't giving up the cash cow, so Rogan is seemingly going to continue making episodes. Cancel culture? Alright, once again, trying to see the power of cancel culture here. Rogan made a decision he wanted to make, Spotify made a decision to keep Rogan, Rogan continues making episodes. Cancelled? Uh... sure. Nothing has changed.
Then there's mention of Dwayne Johnson and a few other "examples" of cancel culture, or whatever, that I admittedly have not even heard of. Must be really powerful stuff if these other people can be cancelled and I, a leftist SJW as I've been called plenty before on here (an apparent personal attack that the people who complain about personal attacks have always defended me from, for sure!) haven't even heard of it. And then stuff like Bill Burr, "but WHY are we not cancelling HIM!???" yeah you're right, cancel culture, this apparently insidious and powerful thing that doesn't actually seem to have any impact is blown wide open by this one example, but... nevermind... let's not analyze that... it's because Burr's a lefty... just like The Rock (oh... wait? I'm confused now)
The point being, I honestly think a lot of this stuff is for suckers at this point. It's meaningless drivel. The right and left are both, equally, pumping people up like fat pigs obsessed with these things that ultimately do not matter. Every decision comes down to the financials, and sometimes that goes with public perception, sometimes it doesnt. But "cancel culture" is an entirely overrated concept that suckers people in and churns them through the outrage machine.
Think about it (whoever is reading this? I guess?) how much time have you wasted thinking or talking about these things that don't even matter? We live in a world where meaningful change could actually be enacted if everyone wasn't so distracted, and you've got idiots like me sitting around saying "The bad man said the bad thing!" as the outrage machine gives me a little poke to keep me going. Then you've got idiots like Cliff sitting around saying "The bad man CAN say the bad things!! Now YOU are the bad man for saying he can't!" as the outrage machine gives him a little poke to keep him going. None of this matters. Cancel culture, wokeness, etc etc are all completely irrelevant drivel manufactured to keep people distracted. It should be fairly telling that most of these phrases are inflammatory because they've been heavily co-opted and adapted to fit the cause of a fair number of politic pundits whose entire job in recent history is to stoke outrage. But don't think too much about that honey, keep using your fun words like they mean things outside your bubble.
The left wants you to be outraged that Rogan is still on Spotify. Why? Who actually cares? The right wants you to be outraged that people are CANCELLING JOE ROGAN! Why? Who cares? This is all aside from the fact that literally no decision they (big companies like Spotify and celebrities like Rogan) make will take into account what you personally think about it if it doesn't mean $$$. One side is trying to trick you into caring about something that doesn't ultimately matter, the other side is trying to trick you into caring about something that isn't happening in any real terms whatsoever.
Why do they do this? Pretty simple. By keeping your outrage stoked over the meaningless stuff, you'll become more entrenched until you're no longer even capable of rational thought. It becomes an automatic reaction, like second nature. That's how a guy can go from being outraged that they're trying to cancel Joe Rogan to outraged that they're trying to "cancel" the UCP for saying "we need to teach the kids the positive stuff about nazis!!" It reaches a point where people stop thinking. It's no longer about logic or intelligent thought, it's about developing the same repeated reactions until you can't help but view toothless criticism of a celebrity and valid criticism of a government as the same and equally worthy of being disputed just because it comes from the same "side" (that you've manufactured in your head). It's the same thing that causes people to villainize otherwise annoying-at-best politicians until they are ready to vote ANYONE else in, and hell, you BETTER not criticize that anyone else until the bad guys are gone!!
It goes beyond Joe Rogan, obviously. But man. This specifically does. not. matter. If you're someone who is suddenly cheering for the hammer to fall and Rogan to get the boot, you're kind of a sucker. If you're someone who is ranting and raving about cancel culture, you're kind of a sucker. You're in way too deep.
But by all means, have the "is cancel culture good y/n?" conservation one more time. The case is ripe for cracking THIS time. And make sure you "thank" Cliff's posts, it's clearly something he pays a lot of attention to. Man needs a boost.
Apologies for the long post. I will, truly, go back to not posting for a while now. Thanks for humouring me.
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You're right that this specifically does not matter; if this were an isolated incident no one would care and even though it's not it's not even a particularly egregious instance of people trying to enforce their ideology by undercutting someone's access to their audience. James Bennet he ain't.
It also seems like an example of this behaviour that's almost certain to fail. Joe Rogan makes the people who matter too much money to be cancelled. He's not in any need of any defense from this and frankly, he sucks, so it's not very rewarding to defend him anyway.
That of course misses the point of the broader impact of this culture war, as described in my last post. The impact of this stuff isn't felt by filthy rich people like Joe Rogan, it's a wider problem. The more you have to lose, the more you're going to keep your head down.
I'm not sure why you're so focused on the outrage from the right about "cancel culture", though, while dismissing the fact that any instance of "cancel culture" controversy is initially framed by people stirring up outrage over (for example) some offensive thing someone said a decade prior, and suggesting that everyone enlist in the cause of doing as much personal and professional damage to the person who dared utter those words as can be managed. There are certainly people profiting from self-righteous outrage on both sides of the issue, and doing so in cases where it absolutely is not warranted and shouldn't matter, so focusing on the people who are doing it from the reactionary side of things doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Tucker Carlson wouldn't have this particular soapbox to stand on and create mountains out of meaningless molehills if not for the simultaneous existence of actual mountains.
Certainly right that there's nothing that's going to be done about any of this by writing about it on a Calgary hockey forum, of course, but that's true of literally everything.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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Guess I don't understand how Joe Rogan is being cancelled then. He's clearly not going to be banished from the internet. Podcasts are basically just an RSS feed. Even if Spotify turfed him, it's still going to be wildly available to anyone who cares.
I won't argue the anti-vaxx part since we have 17 other threads covering that.
I switched to Tidal and haven't looked back. I know my $15/month doesn't make a difference but this was the trigger for me to look. Tidal has just as expansive a library, better audio quality and pays artists 3x better per play.
Joe Rogan's misinformation and pseudoscience outrages me and I'm happy to no longer be supporting a service that allows him to do so unchecked.
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The left wants you to be outraged that Rogan is still on Spotify. Why? Who actually cares?
Ostensibly the people who recognize that Joe Rogan peddling pseudoscience to his millions of listeners has resulted in the spread of misinformation related to this little pandemic thing going on.
Disinformation is probably the biggest issue of today outside of climate change as we enter the frontier of the social media age. It's been weaponized by the likes of Russia and China (and no doubt our own governments). Because of it we had a literal insurrection attempt just over a year ago in the US. Today we're suffering the consequences of it as our capital is locked down.
While it's sad that it took Neil Young speaking out to push the issue, and not the 270 doctors and scientists who had signed a petition prior, I don't think we should conflate this with the likes of other "cancellings" of people who said something a decade ago they regret, this is an ongoing issue with current ramifications.
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I'm guilty of previously finding Russell Brand pretty amusing. Here is his take on the Joe Rogan issue (pre-Young). There is an interesting point to be made there, and I do appreciate that Brand has been known to alter his perspective when he is given new information. The 270 doctors thing is pretty funny.
His clickbait titles to his talks are really annoying, considering he has a valid viewpoint on a few subjects. He is a comedian, so maybe he can't help it.
Anyway, for your amusement.
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"By Grabthar's hammer ... what a savings."
Guess I don't understand how Joe Rogan is being cancelled then.
The sole broadcaster for the Joe Rogan podcast has removed, or ‘cancelled’ broadcast of some 100+ episodes, including such public threats as *checks notes*...Gad Saad and Maynard Keenan?
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No, no…I’m not sloppy, or lazy. This is a sign of the boredom.
The sole broadcaster for the Joe Rogan podcast has removed, or ‘cancelled’ broadcast of some 100+ episodes, including such public threats as *checks notes*...Gad Saad and Maynard Keenan?
He requested them be taken off according to Spotify.
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The sole broadcaster for the Joe Rogan podcast has removed, or ‘cancelled’ broadcast of some 100+ episodes, including such public threats as *checks notes*...Gad Saad and Maynard Keenan?
Spotify removed episodes the day he landed there, he knew that was the deal when he signed.
I switched to Tidal and haven't looked back. I know my $15/month doesn't make a difference but this was the trigger for me to look. Tidal has just as expansive a library, better audio quality and pays artists 3x better per play.
Joe Rogan's misinformation and pseudoscience outrages me and I'm happy to no longer be supporting a service that allows him to do so unchecked.
Unchecked? They’ve removed more than 100 of his episodes. I doubt any but a handful of them even dealt in vaccinations or the pandemic, unless Dan Savage, Marc Maron, and Bill Burr were talking about those subjects years ago.
But enjoy Tidal. No doubt they take the moral high ground and refuse to include the catalogues of artists like Bowie, Led Zeppelin, and all the rest who had sex with doped-up 14 and 15 year olds.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
But enjoy Tidal. No doubt they take the moral high ground and refuse to include the catalogues of artists like Bowie, Led Zeppelin, and all the rest who had sex with doped-up 14 and 15 year olds.
I'm not getting the point are you trying to make with this and questioning Neil Young selling his catalog?
Young took issue with spreading fake science misinformation, not questioning any moral issues.
I'm sure there are tonnes of artists who've done things I don't agree with on Spotify, but if I have an issue with them, I don't listen them, and they don't get any of my $15/month. Part of all of our $15/month goes to Rogan's 100 million whether we listen to him or not.
Neil Young has been on the right side (IMO of course) of social issues for years, and I applaud this particular stance. Spreading vaccine misinformation is killing a lot of people in this country and Rogan seems to be a very significant source of that misinformation.
The Led Zeppelin example isn't a good analogy in the context of Neil Young and the covid stuff. No one really cares what Joe Rogan has done personally, in terms of objecting to his podcast. If he'd said, "I'm not getting vaccinated, I don't think it'll help me, I'm healthy and I think this thing is just a flu, but everyone else can do whatever they want" and shut up about it, there wouldn't be an issue.... Take two hypothetical scenarios.
Scenario A: Rogan goes on his podcast and advocates the health benefits of lethal poison. Like, "add 100mg of strychnine to your water twice a day and you'll see amazing benefits". Thousands of people are dead within days.
Scenario B: Rogan decides that his new hobby is making pipe bombs, and explains how to make them from household materials, and how cool it is to watch them blow up, especially indoors. Thousands of people are dead within days.
I would suggest that Scenario B is much worse, and that Scenario B is also more analogous to reality. So if that's why you want to stop supporting Spotify, perfectly reasonable decision, in my view. Of course, you can do whatever you want with your money regardless of whether your reasoning for doing so is dumb or not.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Unchecked? They’ve removed more than 100 of his episodes. I doubt any but a handful of them even dealt in vaccinations or the pandemic, unless Dan Savage, Marc Maron, and Bill Burr were talking about those subjects years ago.
Joe Rogan has been affected by cancel culture so deeply that once-a-month guest and best friend Bryan Callen hasn't been on Rogan's podcast since the allegations against him.
Last edited by FormerPresJamesTaylor; 02-07-2022 at 03:15 PM.
