Buy?/Sell?/All-in?/Tank? What should the Flames do?

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If you can re-sign Johnny and Matthew isn’t that a reason to not go all in on rentals?

If the Flames want to stay competitive when Johnny is in his 30-35 years they should hold onto the Coronato’s, Pelletier’s and picks especially on rentals.

I still think Dube+Valimaki+2nd rounder are the assets the flames have in play. Pelletier could take the role Dube currently has next season and if he gets the team a legit top 6 forward it could be worth exploring.

So all three of those for a top six forward? Who would do that trade though?

Is there a good forward with term somewhere on a cheap team that you could target with that package?

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If you can re-sign Johnny and Matthew isn’t that a reason to not go all in on rentals?

If the Flames want to stay competitive when Johnny is in his 30-35 years they should hold onto the Coronato’s, Pelletier’s and picks especially on rentals.

I still think Dube+Valimaki+2nd rounder are the assets the flames have in play. Pelletier could take the role Dube currently has next season and if he gets the team a legit top 6 forward it could be worth exploring.

Agreed. I’d also consider a first if the player is good enough. Most seem to agree this team is good enough if we add 1 very good player look out. We don’t need 6 players imo

Valimaki dube first maybe first and 1 2nd. Trading our first this year is looking likely it’s not a top 15 pick and it seems this team has many prospects that fall in the category of players taking in the middle or late first or 2nd round.

Not sure who will be available but there is 8 teams in the east and none are even close to Boston who is in 8th.

With 32 teams this year is first year 16 will miss the playoffs. Some trade deadlines there is 6 or 7 sellers. There could be 10 to 12 this year. Could be a great year to buy

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

So all three of those for a top six forward? Who would do that trade though?

Is there a good forward with term somewhere on a cheap team that you could target with that package?

I would use those assets to improve the team be it one player or a couple.

[Drunk Uncle]

I hope the Flames push all in for as long as Gaudreau is a member of this team and is still in his prime.

Trade any and all picks to take shots in the playoffs. We don't need mid to late first rounders impacting our 2nd/3rd lines 5 to 6 years from now when Gaudreau is 34/35.

If you can't catch lightning in a bottle before Gaudreau leaves/ages, a rebuild is required to replenish his game breaking talent which can only come from high high 1st rounders. If that's next year fine. If that's 5 or 6 years from now that's fine too.

The benefit of baring the cupboards now is we won't have gooey middle replacement middle six players acquired the next few drafts and that will almost certainly put us in a position to draft really high when we do choose to rebuild.

[Flame On]

Lots of great proposals in this thread for who's available etc. Many of those seem like great ideas, I think I'm leaning toward the Toffoli addition.

In terms of whether they should, I take a higher altitude look at that and think, yes, there are lots of unknowns about next season. But I think you need to send a message to Johnny/Chucky that they are a team that will go for it, if they want any chance of signing them.

And failing that you need to keep your team brand (for want of a better term) out there with some success every now and then, to attract free-agents and just keep yourself up there as a vital team.

They've had some success this year and are built for the playoffs. If they don't lean into that I think it could be pretty damaging.

[Slanter]

My opinion isn't different than a lot in here, but thought I'd throw it in anyways:

If you're Brad Treliving, and you don't think Johnny is going to sign, you go all-in this year. Trade your first-overall pick which isn't going to be that great anyway. Trade a prospect. It sets your inevitable rebuild back, but not by a lot.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Slanter

My opinion isn't different than a lot in here, but thought I'd throw it in anyways:

If you're Brad Treliving, and you don't think Johnny is going to sign, you go all-in this year. Trade your first-overall pick which isn't going to be that great anyway. Trade a prospect. It sets your inevitable rebuild back, but not by a lot.

One problem with that is the depth of this year's draft is quite good, so even if you're drafting in the late stages of the first round, you will still get a damn good player. I'm still ok trading it if the player we get back is young.

[Demetric]

As other have stated, help up front is the main area that could use improvement (2nd/3rd line). I like these as potential targets (acquisition cost must be reasonable)

Toffoli - Right show, knows Sutter - seems like a perfect fit
Pavelski - Right shot, currently at over ppg
Giroux - Right shot
R. Smith - Left Shot - Vegas needs to shed salary to activate Echiel and Martinez - might be able to get him on the cheap. Would boost the PK

I think that the top line will remain unchanged, as it should, and the Colman/Backlund/Mangi is gelling now as well and should be left alone. That leave the right side of the Dube/Manahan line open and think and of those guys would fit with those two.

[Macho0978]

There also is about 20 to 22 potential buyers. Right now 11 have no cap space or less than the Flames. Flames can add almost $6 mil at the deadline with no salary going back. Seems like the biggest competition to out bid us as buyers are:

LA
Minnesota
Boston
Nyr
Nashville
Anaheim

That’s a pretty short list and a couple teams have cap issues next year and probably only interested in rentals

Couple teams have less picks and prospects than we do.

It’s realistic the Flames could land a good player at the deadline and not give up much on the roster.

[traptor]

I think the flames need to trade for a top 6 player around 5m with a bit of term. If Johny walks and you need to blow it up you can still get some value back by moving this player out or it atleast dampens the blow of losing JG. If Johny stays, then you have another legit top 6 option to play with mang.

I don't think Calgary is in a spot to buy a high end pure rental. If we have been consistent contenders like vegas, lightning or boston then sure. For a team like Calgary I don't think one player coming in at the end of the season makes or breaks a team in playoffs. Then you end up losing them and those assets for nothing.

I'd be looking at Miller, Garland, Toffoli, Konecny, Eberle or R Smith caliber players. You can move Backlund or Monahan in the offseason if you need cap for the big signings.

edit:
my preference of options for the flames is as follows:

1. top 6 Forward with some term
2. middle 6 rental (e.g. Jarnkarok, rakell)
3. Top 6 rental (pavelski, giroux, hertl)

[Northendzone]

so we are all in agreement with what the flames should do then?

[edslunch]

I’m not in favour of blowing it up, but just for fun what do you think Johnny could get as a rental? First round plus blue chip prospect +?

[Vinny01]

It should be a sellers market this year. Look at the East there are already 8 teams that are completely out of it barring a miraculous run.

In the west Arizona, Seattle, Chicago are done and Vancouver, San Jose, and Winnipeg need to get hot quick or they are done.

With so many defined sellers there should be decent prices out there

[Sec214]

First thing I do is do a move to improve out 3rd line. Lucic isn't getting moved, That leaves Dube and Monahan. Personally I haven't seen enough from Dube and due to his contract/age. I think he would be a nice add in a deal to improve the right side.

Dube/Monahan + 2nd + Prospect (B) for Tyler Toffoli

After this I consider getting a True RHRS Winger and an absolute game breaker when he's engaged something he is not in Columbus. Laine is the supreme target for me, I think he'd be the perfect fit. I'm unsure the cost but its definitely 1st+.

If the Laine cant be had some pipedreams would be Konecny + Giroux with Ottawa being a broker, receiving Andrew Magiapane. I think Konecny is the better player, a position of need and he's locked down for a 3 more years at 5.5 after this one. Seems to be falling out of favor in Philly. Philly gets loaded with Futures from both sides and salary is heavily retained on Giroux by Ottawa and Philly.

I personally don't want to run Johnny/Mangi/Chucky down the left side with Pelt coming up quickly. I know that first line is fire, but we know you cant put all your eggs in one basket like the ass team up north and be successful.

Blockbuster would be Chucky + for Barzel + (Conditional Picks) if it can be had.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

so we are all in agreement with what the flames should do then?

Not exactly.

If you can add an impact top 6 forward such as Toffoli for a reasonable cost, you do it. However, what I'm not in favor of is the "emptying the clip" approach as some have suggested.

If you bare the cupboard and mortgage the future to go all-in this year, unloading picks and prospects like candy, how does that set the team up for the next 10-15 years?

What kind of message are you really sending to Johnny & Mony if you ask them to sign on the dotted line for 8 years each, yet at the same time you're setting the team up for little to no chance of team success beyond this and maybe next year? How interested are they really in spending 1-2 years on a contending team followed by 6 years of rebuilding?

And here's the other thing. While it may seem like a great idea to acquire players that have term beyond this year, the question becomes how on earth do you keep everybody while staying under the cap?

Looking at the history of this team since '06, every time they've tried to take shortcuts to get into contend-now mode, it's blown up in their faces.

A perrenial contender is not made by unloading futures every time the team is in a playoff position. It is made by patiently drafting and developing its own talent, and trusting in the process. Case in point, Johnny, Chucky, Eatbread, Mony were drafted by this team and developed patiently. Lindy & Hanafin were acquired via the Adam Fox trade, another quality Flames draft pick. Bennett was also drafted by this team, though mismanaged, unfortunately. The end result of this patient drafting process, combined with smartly chosen free agent pickups and quality coaching, is a team that is finding its way and having some success. The way to keep things this way long term is not to light the house on fire (pun not intended) just to enjoy one guns-blazing playoff run.

Remember, nothing in the playoffs is ever guaranteed, no matter how good a team you may have. The Flames could unload their entire collection of picks and prospects to beef up their roster to epic proportions, yet still not be guaranteed to beat Vegas and Colorado in the playoffs.

[djsFlames]

After going 23-13-6? Oh definitely tank.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Sandman

One problem with that is the depth of this year's draft is quite good, so even if you're drafting in the late stages of the first round, you will still get a damn good player. I'm still ok trading it if the player we get back is young.

I think if we went all in and lost, plus lose Matt and Johnny, then you start the rebuild a bit early. You could get some solid picks for guys like Tanev

[Zulu29]

Push the chips in, not gonna be an opportunity like this for awhile likely. Jarnkrok would be a great fit on the 3rd line and Toffoli on the second. Make it happen Tre

[theinfinitejar]

Empty the clip. This may be the best shot you're gonna have for awhile so make it count.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

People still frequently mention how mistiming the Kipper and Iggy trades plus not getting enough of a return crippled this franchise and set them back for a decade.

Now we have a chance to avoid history repeating itself and people want to mortgage our already not great looking future.

Doing nothing is ballsy but could payoff if we have a deep run and re-sign both guys. Trading away picks/prospects, losing in the first/second round and letting Johnny/Chucky walk is completely suicidal and will cripple this franchise for another decade.

Where did the burn it down and rebuild crowd disappear to? Surely they haven’t just abandoned CP. More likely all it shows is that most people have hilariously short memories. Team losing, tear it down and rebuild. Team winning, go all in trade the future for a shot.