Valimaki: ‘Stupid’ that he’s sitting

[TheIronMaiden]

This just screams a miss translation. Finish is a far cry from English and google translate is un reliable at giving contextual meanings to words. A great headline though.

[Unknown]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

This just screams a miss translation. Finish is a far cry from English and google translate is un reliable at giving contextual meanings to words. A great headline though.

If you want to read a reliable translation, please check out post #82. Although Välimäki gave Sutter credit for being a coach this team needs, I didn't like to see him say the things he said. Believe me, I'm a Finn, and Välimäki indeed said in that article, that "It isn't nice (not to play). I think I deserve to play and I think I played well enough to belong in the lineup." I know that he's so hungry to get back because of the Olympics (where team Finland don't have that many great options in D), but I don't remember that for example Kylington would have said anything like this during his short stints in the NHL.

Originally Posted by getbak

Here comes the damage control: https://calgaryherald.com/sports/hoc...lames-blueline

I also see this as damage control.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

At that time he didn't have a lot of time for defenseman like Lydman and Leopold that were better skaters than they were hitters. In those days I'm not sure he would give a player like Kylington a long look.

If Zadorov hadn't been a complete tirefire in games 1 and 2, I'm not sure Kylington would have gotten a long look this year anyways. He got 3 minutes in game 1 and was a scratch in game 2.

Thankfully Zadorov was horrible. Even a mediocre Zadorov with Tanev might have resulted in a repeat of last year.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Unknown

If you want to read a reliable translation, please check out post #82. Although Välimäki gave Sutter credit for being a coach this team needs, I didn't like to see him say the things he said. Believe me, I'm a Finn, and Välimäki indeed said in that article, that "It isn't nice (not to play). I think I deserve to play and I think I played well enough to belong in the lineup." I know that he's so hungry to get back because of the Olympics (where team Finland don't have that many great options in D), but I don't remember that for example Kylington would have said anything like this during his short stints in the NHL.



I also see this as damage control.

Thank yo for correction me.

[Goriders]

There are 3 or 4 fringe Dmen on the Flames roster. I would say they are Valimaki, Stone, Zadorov and Kylington.

I think Kylington has taken a huge step and probably surprised everyone. He has worked his way to the top of this group.

Valimaki has not done the same thing and doesn’t have the track record Zadorov has so he’s probably behind Kylington and Zadorov at this point. I honestly don’t think he’s a Sutter favourite.

Zadorov is reckless with the puck but brings physicality. Something Valimaki doesn’t really bring and something the team was obviously looking for this offseason. Valimaki is often as reckless. But per above minus the physical presence.

Stone is just a depth insurance policy.

So unless things change I think Kylington has earned a permanent spot in the lineup. Zadorov is probably next in line for the 6th spot. Guessing he will rotate with Valimaki. With Valimaki getting the lesser of the starts or he’ll play when there are injuries. Stone will probably play random games here and there. But he’s just strictly in case of emergency.

[Knightslayer]

Kylinton is not a fringe defenceman. He is locked into the top 4.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Kylinton is not a fringe defenceman. He is locked into the top 4.

Kind of. Most games he plays bottom 6 for minutes. He's being utilized pretty well and is playing well enough to earn more rope than the others named. Maybe after a full season of this level of play will cement him as a top 4 going forward but it's hardly a sure thing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Kind of. Most games he plays bottom 6 for minutes. He's being utilized pretty well and is playing well enough to earn more rope than the others named. Maybe after a full season of this level of play will cement him as a top 4 going forward but it's hardly a sure thing.

If he gets onto special teams his minutes will increase dramatically. I would guess his ES minutes are pretty much the same as the others - Sutter loves his even ice times.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If he gets onto special teams his minutes will increase dramatically. I would guess his ES minutes are pretty much the same as the others - Sutter loves his even ice times.

If you exclude the first game of the season, where he was the 7th d-man and only had 6 shifts, he is averaging 17:00 per game in ES ice time, which is the 4th-highest on the team.

Hanifin leads the team with 17:53 and Andersson is close behind at 17:51. Tanev is 3rd at 17:26.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by getbak

If you exclude the first game of the season, where he was the 7th d-man and only had 6 shifts, he is averaging 17:00 per game in ES ice time, which is the 4th-highest on the team.

Hanifin leads the team with 17:53 and Andersson is close behind at 17:51. Tanev is 3rd at 17:26.

Hanifin-Andersson probably take longer shifts too since they get hemmed in more often.

[Gaskal]

I think this is a little overblown due to being lost in translation, but either way this is not a good look for him considering others like Kylington, Zadorov and Stone kept their heads down and mouths shut while they were being healthy scratched.

Kylington and Zadorov both responded positively to their scratching and heck, Stone's been so quiet I forgot he even existed. They were told to keep working hard and be ready and they did.

[rogermexico]

"We'll need 'em all. That's for sure."
-Darryl Sutter, 10-08-2021

I know that trying to read into Darryl’s press conferences is a bit of a trap, but one of the themes he’s really been bringing up again and again is managing the schedule. I think he’s actively working all the time on balancing the minutes, balancing the workload, to make sure that guys are fresh, so that as we get into the guts of the season and eventually the playoffs, his horses are all in the shape he needs them to be to execute the plan he’s got.

I get that isn’t necessarily easy for a young, hungry guy like Vallimaki to hear, but he’s going to get his opportunities. But along the way Darryl is going to want him to prove that he can be a pro. The more he can take pages out of Stone’s book — and Kylington’s too — the more he’s going to set himself up to take advantage of the opportunity when it comes back.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hanifin-Andersson probably take longer shifts too since they get hemmed in more often.

Tanev had an unfortunate 2 minute shift last game because of getting hemmed in (which TBF to all D happens mostly because of the forwards).

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

How are they different people though?

Darryl the GM is the person who didn't think Anton Stralman was good enough to make this team, in a season where he would proceed to log 20:29 of average icetime for another team and the Flames desperately traded for... Ian White.

So is Darryl the coach a different person with regards to assessment of young players?

Or does he have... blind spots just like every other human being?

This is spot on, I remember when Stralman was with us and he just had his kid born in Calgary and for the small amounts he was playing I saw flashes of brilliance. I had the same thoughts about OK in his initial seasons.

That always stung and I always thought Sutter made a huge mistake when Stralman became one of the foundations for those great Tampa Bay teams.

Darryl's only human and we, collectively have deeper memories and insights into both the achievements and mistakes he has made along the way, moreso than any other person coming in to coach.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Ugh, I hate arguments like this. Darryl is obviously a hall of fame coach, and is incredibly knowledgeable about all aspects of hockey, but that doesn't mean he's infallible and can never be wrong.

When Darryl made the Phaneuf trade or the Regehr trade, tons of people on CP hated the deals and thought they were big mistakes. And guess what, the people who thought that were 100% correct and Darryl was completely wrong. No coach/GM/whatever is always right and above being questioned or disagreed with.

Now in this case, I'd personally give Darryl the benefit of the doubt, but he could very well be wrong or mishandling things. It's definitely possible, and the people who think he's wrong could be correct. Argue the points they are making, don't just throw up your hands and say 'The coach must know best, cause he's the coach!'

Sad it took so long to see a post like this. Sutter is a great coach no doubt about it, but everyone can make mistakes.

And take it a bit further. Sutter is a boss with 2 dozen employees. Most of us here have been in work situations where we feel we have done the work and someone else advances before us. So lets not act like this is something unprecedented where the wrong person gets the glory.

I think we see a lot of coaches and organizations that value veteran players. And I think think those are often the very same organizations that are terrible at developing talent. Having suffered through the Ken Holland era as a Wings fan, I am very attuned to this philosophy.

One other thing I would say for someone like Sutter that has a reputation as being tough on younger players... I think it is important to remember a good leader knows that people all react different. Not everyone responds positively to tough love. That doesn't make them selfish or weak or anything else. No idea if that is the case here, but as we all discuss narratives, I think that is important to remember.

[GioforPM]

No one is saying Sutter is perfect. He’s been fired as coach three times. But he’s won the cup three times (it was in) and his best skill is deploying personnel. All of the biggest criticisms of him are as GM - a way different role.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Ugh, I hate arguments like this. Darryl is obviously a hall of fame coach, and is incredibly knowledgeable about all aspects of hockey, but that doesn't mean he's infallible and can never be wrong.

When Darryl made the Phaneuf trade or the Regehr trade, tons of people on CP hated the deals and thought they were big mistakes. And guess what, the people who thought that were 100% correct and Darryl was completely wrong. No coach/GM/whatever is always right and above being questioned or disagreed with.

Now in this case, I'd personally give Darryl the benefit of the doubt, but he could very well be wrong or mishandling things. It's definitely possible, and the people who think he's wrong could be correct. Argue the points they are making, don't just throw up your hands and say 'The coach must know best, cause he's the coach!'

I thought Al Coates acquired Regehr and Feaster traded him away.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Sutter isn't dumb. Nor is he that stubborn. There's a reason Valimaki is sitting over Zadorov. I don't know what it is but Sutter does. And right now, I'll take sutters decision making over upset roster players to form my opinion on things like this.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No one is saying Sutter is perfect. He’s been fired as coach three times. But he’s won the cup three times (it was in) and his best skill is deploying personnel. All of the biggest criticisms of him are as GM - a way different role.

Gio, you are right no one is specifically saying he is perfect, but the first quote above was one of the most thanked posts on the first page and I recall seeing similar versions many times as I read the thread. I think a tactic like that is used to shut down legitimate discussion.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dobbles

Gio, you are right no one is specifically saying he is perfect, but the first quote above was one of the most thanked posts on the first page and I recall seeing similar versions many times as I read the thread. I think a tactic like that is used to shut down legitimate discussion.

Do you think so? I rather actually think it promotes discussion, since it provides a legitimate counterview to the concern being expressed by some who appear convinced by a well-worn narrative about how the Flames supposedly mishandle their prospects. It seems to me that there is plenty of space for healthy disagreement there.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Knightslayer]

I agree with dobbles. Posts like those are used to shutdown discussion because the coach is smarter than everyone and knows best.

Truthfully Sutter is a brilliant coach but he isn't god and he isn't perfect. He makes mistakes so that argument doesn't hold for me. We have seen him make big player mistakes as a GM and like granteedev pointed out, that's the same person.

If Zadorov wasn't so horrible in first 2 games maybe it's Kylington who is sitting right now and Valimaki still in.