I was close on my council of Lokis guess, it just wasn't as formalized as I had thought. :P
I was recently turned on to the idea that Loki might inadvertently release Kang on the current avengers/time line through this endeavor rather than Kang being behind it all. Kang is limited in control of time by the very entity that Loki and Sylvie enchanted at the end of last episode in the comic books.
The way marvel works is that Kang will be introduced / referenced in the end credit scenes and not the driving force. They have been pretty good at keeping shows self contained and not ending on wild cliff hangers. They do not have time to introduce Kang, explain his motivations, and deal with him in a way thats satisfying.
So I have the end credit scenes as Mobius riding a jet ski and then the introduction of Kang.
I like Loki as the ruler at the end of time, I have Loki refusing to betray Sylvie, Sylvie betraying Loki becoming the Enchantress (she’s said enchant about 100 times so far)
The reason there are so many Loki variants is that it was hard to have a timeline where this specific Loki ended up in charge without other Loki’s being powerful enough to defeat him. So Loki’s get pruned with very small deviations.
The other option is a future Sylvie is the big bad but I prefer it being a Hiddleston Loki.
Just a 1/2hr of exposition and never even officially named Kang as Kang. Just he who remains, the conqueror, and went through his back story. They left themselves lots of room and ended on a cliff hanger.
One thing that doesn’t work is that Kang did not know the future because of the Sylvie and Loki nexus events. Sylvie left Unpruned and Loki falling in love with her created a universe in where that particular Kang doesn’t win whereas if that moment doesn’t happen and a Loki reaches the end of time they take over control of the timeline. But that sort of breaks down because without Sylvie and Loki’s Nexus events no one reaches the end of time and Kang wouldn’t know the future up to the point of Sylvie’s decision to betray Loki being made.
Mostly I’m disappointed they went away from the self contained show and instead went cliff hanger
And in a single instant the multiverse was created w/ the death of the Kang who remained. Really a shame that the TVA got re-written the instant Sylvie finished. Wonder why Loki didn't get affected by the branching yet Mobius and hunter B-15 did? Will we ever see that version of Mobius again or is he just lost forever without his jet ski?
Sucks though we will have to wait awhile for season 2 to wrap up things up.
Is it far enough along in the thread to just talk? By five posts along, time for people to know that this is going to happen.
*SPOILERS*
The only thing that I really didn't like about that was the Season 2.
They introduced Sylie (who could easily become Enchantress), Mobius, Reyvanna, have a live Loki, and introduced Kang, soon to be the strongest Kang who kills other Kangs, Kang the Conqueror.
By having a season 2, it implies one of two things. The first is that these characters are self contained, or that Kang is being brought in solely so that the Fantasic Four can defeat them in their standalone movie to prove how awesome they are. The second, is that these characters will exist in the main MCU, and the second season bridges the gap between an ongoing storyline in Multiverse of Madness, and Fantastic Four.
Guess we will find out.
I did like the fact that this era of Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Wandavision and Loki, were all standalone limited series. Essentially due to the fact that these stories needed more than two hours to tell, and they required a change of format. If Loki becomes a 'television show', I can't see how that is not a little disappointing in terms of scale in the MCU.
End of rant.
Otherwise, I liked it! Richard E. Grant played classic Loki so well, right down to the classic pose when he was magicking. I don't even mind the million loose ends, seeing as how that was the point. Phase Four can let chaos reign, and that is just fun. No reason to bring in F4, the Eternals and X-Men into a solidly established universe.
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Just like Eve who ate the forbidden fruit, Sylvie gave in to her inner demons and ####ed all of mankind with her self gratification
Its kinda like Starlord's moment in Infinity War but worse. At least Starlord you could say he did it in a fit of uncontrolled rage, but with Sylvie she's done it despite being told the consequences and not being able to overcome her own insecurities and paranoid nature to become the self-righteous murderer and hypocrite Kang accused her of being.
If episode 5 was a showcase of Loki's that were capable of change and could overcome their inner demons, episode 6 was an example Loki's who couldn't; even worse than the Loki bowling alley betrayal-fest.
Its kinda like Starlord's moment in Infinity War but worse. At least Starlord you could say he did it in a fit of uncontrolled rage, but with Sylvie she's done it despite being told the consequences and not being able to overcome her own insecurities and paranoid nature to become the self-righteous murderer and hypocrite Kang accused her of being.
If episode 5 was a showcase of Loki's that were capable of change and could overcome their inner demons, episode 6 was an example Loki's who couldn't; even worse than the Loki bowling alley betrayal-fest.
Sylvia was certainly a Loki who changed though. She wasn’t about power or revenge. She wanted free will no matter the consequence. Her action was a difference of opinion on whether authoritarian peace is better than freedom and suffering.
A Loki seizes power which would have been fine in terms of preserving the timelines.
Sylvia was certainly a Loki who changed though. She wasn’t about power or revenge. She wanted free will no matter the consequence. Her action was a difference of opinion on whether authoritarian peace is better than freedom and suffering.
A Loki seizes power which would have been fine in terms of preserving the timelines.
Thing is she hasn't seized power. The TVA has already been reset and built in Kang the Conqueror's image. It played out exactly as The One Who Remained said it would.
Thing is she hasn't seized power. The TVA has already been reset and built in Kang the Conqueror's image. It played out exactly as The One Who Remained said it would.
That’s what I was getting at
She was a Loki who changed.
If she was still at her core acting for her own self interest and power she kills Kang (who remains) and takes his place as Kang proposed to Loki and Sylvie.
Instead she changes her nature and it results in the destruction of the sacred timeline. Even Hiddle Loki only really expanded to loving other versions of himself because he was happy to seize power and rule together.
If she was still at her core acting for her own self interest and power she kills Kang (who remains) and takes his place as Kang proposed to Loki and Sylvie.
Instead she changes her nature and it results in the destruction of the sacred timeline. Even Hiddle Loki only really expanded to loving other versions of himself because he was happy to seize power and rule together.
I see what you are saying with wanting to rule.
I kind of viewed as what makes a Loki a Loki is built in with a certain amount of narcissism, insecurities, paranoia, and drive to survive, i.e. We're Loki's, we survive. In some Loki's this manifests as their Glorious Purpose (tm) for power and to rule, others it turns into paranoia, backstabbing, megalomania, and betrayal.
Sylvie gave in to her paranoia to the end and refused to believe what He Who Remains told her would be the ultimate outcome of this, instead acting on her fears and her Loki inability to trust anyone. She refused to listen to someone telling her the truth, and someone willing to sacrifice his life to convince her otherwise and couldn't go against her own nature so never really changed.
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I'm think that too, but I don't think he is behind it.
So there was 1 in 14,000,000 timelines where Thanos lost. So we know multiple timelines exist, so why aren't they all pruned? How could Dr. Strange see them all?
If I was anti-Thanos and in charge of the TVA, I would prune every event in the timeline that led to one of the failures, so they only timeline left, the "Sacred Timeline" would be the one where the rat brings Ant-man back, ensuring the Avengers victory.
If I was anti-Kang, like maybe Immortus, and had power over time, I might also create the TVA to "prune" all timelines that led to Kang the Conqueror destroying everything and leave only the timeline that resulted in his loss (or non-existense). I wouldn't be evil per say, not disintegrating people, but needing them out of the timeline that would bring Kang to power.
I wouldn't need to prune every timeline, only those nexus events that will eventually lead to Kang. And apparently, Loki is center to a lot of nexus events that lead to Kang. Including this one.
I can totally see the set up to the TVA being evil, Loki being the anti-hero and shutting them down. Only to discover in the end, that by doing so, they stopped the only thing holding Kang back and allow a timeline to occur which will unleash Kang upon the MCU.
But I was all over the place with WandaVision speculation, so Imma just enjoy what they give me, cause its been the best so far.
I really enjoyed the ending.. finally one of my silly speculations came pretty close. I thought it worked very good as a self contained show and the ending expanded the universe in a way that didn't take away from Loki's journey but displayed it as the stepping off point for the whole next saga.
I like that they didn't name Kang but unfortunately with the casting of Ant-man 3, it was pretty obvious to all fans once his face was shown. But my wife, who has no clue about things like that, also immensely enjoyed it.
Creating depth in the big bad by showing the reformed version before explaining his evil versions was a step up from the Thanos teasers and trying to fit his whole story into Infinity War. I also am very excited to see how Majors plays out evil Kang. I thought he was wonderfully eccentric in this, and although most of the lead up seemed to be matching the Wizard of Oz, the turn to Willy Wonka was great. He played the half-mad, very intelligent, crazy hermit shut-in perfectly.
Overall, loved it.
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I thought that was pretty good, I liked that there was a conclusion of sorts. I don't know much about the multiverse or Kang or any of that from the comics, so I felt it was a good fresh take. The actor did a great job in that role for sure. You would become almost quasi insane being alone that long left to your own devices.
I think Loki was my favourite of all the MCU shows so far.
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i thought the series was enjoyable overall - the kind of retro kitsch of the TVA combined with the lead performers (and strong supporting performances) made for a good show. It seemed very much that, in addition to the character beats and plot developments, the series served as an introduction to an important concept and characters for future installments
And you can see the pattern from the recent MCU installments. This isn't to say they only served the purposes I describe, but the pattern is there. The MCU installments are laying the groundwork for future Marvel Studios properties which is a good thing for Disney. Good corporate synergy and/or overall vision/gameplan
Infinity War - heroes can lose
Ant-Man & Wasp - expands on the quantum realm
Endgame - introduces time travel, the foundation for the multiverse
Far From Home - further teases at a multiverse
Wandavision - establishes Wanda as a reality warper more than just being a tk, introduces her children
Falcon & Winter Soldier - helps move forward the idea of Captain America as a role and legacy character, introduces Eli
Black Widow - introduces other Widows
Loki - further establishes the multiverse, introduces He Who Survived
Hawkeye - introduces Kate Bishop
And Ms. Marvel is in the Captain Marvel sequel and her own show
Seems very clear a Young Avengers of some form will be introduced, which is good as Iron Man, Cap, and Black Widow age out/move on, you can have younger & cheaper actors signed to long term deal a la the GoT kids who can shape and drive MCU stories for the next decade
They've been able to introduce advanced science fiction concepts into popular cinematics on an unbelievable scale. Imo that was probably the least accessible thing about comic book adaptations now but they've solved it. It's pretty incredible to witness, and imo the MCU is a unique property that will likely form a template for future entertainment properties.
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