[PGT] Flames 1 - Oilers 4

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jore

The complete lack of movement and offensive ability on the blue line stood out to me last night. Gio is now our only defender in the top 50 in league dman scoring (37th). Over seven years, Treliving has built a d corps of stationary shin pad snipers well suited for the league twenty years ago. He's done so by losing one of the most dynamic blue line puck movers the team has ever developed for nothing and burying another promising one for the past 5 years. Great team management and philosophy all around.

Losing Brodie for nothing really hurt.

This team needed Rasmus and Valimaki to really step up this year. Didn't happen.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Mike Smith has had a hell of a season after almost everyone except for Ken Holland wrote him off. Oiler fans were pissed. Flames fans lolled. Hockey fans shook their heads. Yet Smith has proven himself still worthy with an outstanding season. As a Flames' fan it sucks to say. Dude has always been a competitor. But have to give credit where it's due; he has earned the absolute right to gloat and rub #### in our collective faces and frankly good on him.

He put that team on his back to at least get them there. Something no Flame fan can say about ANY player on this team. It's sad the only thing we have to look forward to his Mike f'ing Smith crashing 'n' burning in the playoffs .

Holland wrote him off too he had no other options

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I struggle to think of a more un-clutch team in the entire league. Need a big goal? More often than not it's a struggle to score. Need a big win when the season's on the line? Big woof. Need a franchise changing player to take your team over the hump? LOL.

What happened to all the talk of lesson's learned from season's past? What kind of lessons were learned that are still being applied to as of today? Just a stinker of a team when they needed a win to keep it going.

This 1000x.

[CroFlames]

The worst part is they are making care less and less.

I’ll never stop being a fan, but I’m surprised at how much I don’t care about the Ws and Ls anymore.

I want to be die hard again, but with an org that appears to be more concerned with STH renewals than Cups, it’s hard to care.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by united

Gaudreau and Monahan have now played ten games apart under Sutter. Obtaining as much information as possible in this regard will be vital to the Flames' off-season decision making, of course also factoring in each of the players' long-term desires. Here is the snapshot, noting that with under 200 5v5 minutes you should expect some variance and fluctuation and should contextualize accordingly with your own eye test...but it's a start. Factor in level of linemates and opposition as you see fit, too, noting those typically offset for the most part.

All numbers courtesy of Natural Stat Trick.



My own observations:
- Both players have responded relatively well to their respective roles and linemates.
- Gaudreau having a centreman who is better defensively has allowed him more room to roam defensively and in transition, and Lindholm's willingness to drive the middle lane to the near post has opened space for Gaudreau to operate above the dots in the offensive zone which is where he's at his most dangerous. No change in his lack of compete for 50-50 pucks and fly-bys, but Lindholm is far better suited to support his weaknesses there.
- Monahan has been quietly solid defensively while facing a reduced and appropriate level of competition. Offensively, his willingness to go to the paint is admirable, however he is still a step behind in transition support which, as the centreman, puts a tremendous amount of pressure on his wingers as they get pushed outside the dot lanes. 10 shots on goal in 10 games is very concerning and something to keep an eye on - an early indication he isn't able to drive offence which is okay as a winger but tough as a centreman who is paid as one who can.

Hopefully we see them apart the remainder of the season and ideally with a mix of different linemates as well to expand our database of knowledge. Putting them back together for that Montreal game was odd - maybe Sutter wanted to see the legend that is the ineffective duo of Big Game Sean and John.

Just jumping in - great post - so if this has been addressed already..apologies.

I like Gaudreau and Monahan. Your data concurs with my opinions that both have played better apart. I enjoy seeing Monahan take more of a 'primary' role on his line.

There was a play (can't recall when exactly) that kind of epitmoizes why it works (Lindhom & Gaudreau). The puck went from CGY D to Gaudreau in his zone. Gaudreau did a long give and go with Lindholm, where he recieved puck in his zone but passed back to Lindholm. Gaudreau then skated up his wing and got return pass right before offensive blue line.

That play doesn't happen with Monahan as centre (or never used to). Gaudreau would've had to carry it through d zone, nz, and into o zone in past seasons. Against DAL last year playoffs, 2 guys would've been waiting for Gaudreau to gain possession and they would've been on him immediately.

If you have a closed system with Gaudreau and Monahan inside, it appears certain patterns emerge and opponents could see this too.

The new lines bring about new possibilities and those are seen in your numbers.

However!

Last night was too much perimeter. I saw CGY do so many good things but the last 1-2 touches on an attack were not good and plays subsequently died. EDM had guys back in their box and CGY never threatened to get inside that structure. I felt, until 3 min left in third, CGY carried the play in that period.

I like Ritchie but I've noticed he is big culprit of these last 1-2 touches not being executed well. Ritchie does very well in his shifts in being in the right places and doing the hard work. But he loses control of the puck right at last crucial time.

CGY hands were not great at extending or creating plays last game. The overall hands of the team needs to improve as well as footspeed. The overall skill level of teams right now is incredible - espeically in teams not in north division (when I see highlights I go WOW!) but with pretty much every team.

Time and space are taken away - teams have to be able to make plays in small areas: Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk do this very well but they don't get inside all the time. This was last game issue but game prior it was not (Lindholm first goal: Tkachuk feed from behind net, Lindholm point blank in middle of slot).

Gio and Tanev have been pretty great lately. One last observation is that Hanifin has no doubt taken a step this year but I feel he takes on 'persona' of his partner:

He stated this year he wanted to be more aggressive (I read that as more offensive) and not hold back as much. Partnered with Tanev they are a top defensive pairing which started season not giving up a goal.

Partnered with Hamonic, I saw Hanifin back in a lot (I don't mean to seem like taking shot at Hamonic but Travis is a physical defensive d man to me so he used his body effectively more - Like Stone does now.)

That's why future of Hanifin - Andersson is so intriguing to me. When Hanifin unfortunately got injured, the way Andersson stepped up was impressive..

[N-E-B]

Outside of the fact that I live in Calgary I can’t think of a single reason to be a fan of this organization. Not one.

I’m not saying that I’m abandoning ship. I’m much to invested to quit now. But if I were a brand new hockey fan choosing a team to cheer for I don’t think the Flames would be a consideration.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Losing Brodie for nothing really hurt.

This team needed Rasmus and Valimaki to really step up this year. Didn't happen.

I like Tanev and he's been a positive this season but he's not what this team needed. I said after his signing that I'd rather have Brodie and Talbot than Tanev and Markstrom for their contracts. Just spinning wheels and not addressing the core problem of a lack of a top end centre while somehow also squandering assets.

I'm not too worried about Rasmus or Valimaki but neither project to be the kind of difference maker on defence that you need to be a top team. We had/have a real promising playmaking defender but we needed to play Forbort, Fantenberg, Gustavsson, and Prout to secure our first round exits. Meanwhile every game that Stone and Nesterov get in this lost season lessens the chance he makes an impact as a Flame. Good times to be a Flames fan.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Just jumping in - great post - so if this has been addressed already..apologies.

I like Gaudreau and Monahan. Your data concurs with my opinions that both have played better apart. I enjoy seeing Monahan take more of a 'primary' role on his line.

There was a play (can't recall when exactly) that kind of epitmoizes why it works (Lindhom & Gaudreau). The puck went from CGY D to Gaudreau in his zone. Gaudreau did a long give and go with Lindholm, where he recieved puck in his zone but passed back to Lindholm. Gaudreau then skated up his wing and got return pass right before offensive blue line.

That play doesn't happen with Monahan as centre (or never used to). Gaudreau would've had to carry it through d zone, nz, and into o zone in past seasons. Against DAL last year playoffs, 2 guys would've been waiting for Gaudreau to gain possession and they would've been on him immediately.

If you have a closed system with Gaudreau and Monahan inside, it appears certain patterns emerge and opponents could see this too.

The new lines bring about new possibilities and those are seen in your numbers.

However!

Last night was too much perimeter. I saw CGY do so many good things but the last 1-2 touches on an attack were not good and plays subsequently died. EDM had guys back in their box and CGY never threatened to get inside that structure. I felt, until 3 min left in third, CGY carried the play in that period.

I like Ritchie but I've noticed he is big culprit of these last 1-2 touches not being executed well. Ritchie does very well in his shifts in being in the right places and doing the hard work. But he loses control of the puck right at last crucial time.

CGY hands were not great at extending or creating plays last game. The overall hands of the team needs to improve as well as footspeed. The overall skill level of teams right now is incredible - espeically in teams not in north division (when I see highlights I go WOW!) but with pretty much every team.

Time and space are taken away - teams have to be able to make plays in small areas: Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk do this very well but they don't get inside all the time. This was last game issue but game prior it was not (Lindholm first goal: Tkachuk feed from behind net, Lindholm point blank in middle of slot).

Gio and Tanev have been pretty great lately. One last observation is that Hanifin has no doubt taken a step this year but I feel he takes on 'persona' of his partner:

He stated this year he wanted to be more aggressive (I read that as more offensive) and not hold back as much. Partnered with Tanev they are a top defensive pairing which started season not giving up a goal.

Partnered with Hamonic, I saw Hanifin back in a lot (I don't mean to seem like taking shot at Hamonic but Travis is a physical defensive d man to me so he used his body effectively more - Like Stone does now.)

That's why future of Hanifin - Andersson is so intriguing to me. When Hanifin unfortunately got injured, the way Andersson stepped up was impressive..

Good post. I hate the “plays die on his stick” cliche, but if it fits anyone it’s Ritchie. The possession stats favour Calgary but their possession was 90% within 6 feet of the boards. Including the top line. Aside from their goal, I didn’t see much.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by New Era

The "legit head coach" has done nothing to improve the team or their style of play. It is the exact same style and system as Ward had them playing. Not a helluva lot has changed. They are just as bad under Sutter as they were under Ward.

I actually think Darryl’s system is completely different from Ward/Peters. Those 2 had an all out attack on the forecheck, deep F1 and deep F2 with the F3 darting in constantly. It lead to high event hockey and a lot of chances for the opposition because they’d give up the blue line with ease. Their defensive zone coverage appeared to be very much zone defense, allowing for a lot of outside shots, but protecting the slot.

With Darryl, their forecheck is less aggressive and the forwards look to cut off rather than chase and they drop back more, so the back pressure helps the blue line step up more. It’s more low event hockey and you don’t give up much. But obviously the hockey can be extremely dull. Defensively, I think Darryl is more about man to man, so the middle can be exposed if the details aren’t right. But overall, his system probably leads to less 3-2 games and more 2-1 games.

So as everyone can see, 2 completely different systems. I mean, it’s still hockey and the rink is still the same size, so the differences are subtle, but I personally think the contrast between styles are stark.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Outside of the fact that I live in Calgary I can’t think of a single reason to be a fan of this organization. Not one.

I’m not saying that I’m abandoning ship. I’m much to invested to quit now. But if I were a brand new hockey fan choosing a team to cheer for I don’t think the Flames would be a consideration.

If you like to be disappointed year after year, then yes, be a Flames fan. Outside of a couple surprise playoff runs, this team always disappoints their fanbase whenever expectations are abound. Actually, It does seem like whenever expectations are at its highest, this organization crumbles harder. The year Bouwmeester arrived, this season with the Markstrom addition. This organization is such a joke, they never learn from past mistakes and continue to repeat the same mistakes ones over and over and over. If there’s one thing that the Flames are consistent at, it’s disappointing their loyal fans.

[TheChief]

Guys, Ive been a Flames fan since I remember watching Iginla's first playoffs with Theo in 1996 against Chicago. That's nearly 25 years ago. None of this is surprising, its been this way for decades. For the most part in the last 15 or so years we have had somewhat of a competitive team with hope going into each and every season outside maybe 1 or 2 years.



I wouldn't trade being a fan of this team for anything. There is no other team I would ever cheer for infact if they moved I would cease watching the NHL all together.



The fact of the matter is, there is 32 teams starting next year and its getting harder and harder to win.


The flames need to build through the draft, and not rush out to spend money on free agents. We will always have to over pay in that regard and I dont believe for the most part outside of a few it has worked out great for us. (Hudler/Frolik) recent memory come to mind.



We have the right coach, I truly believe that. Now we just need a GM that is willing to make the right moves to get him the players he wants.

[heep223]

This is the most disappointing season that I can remember, in many ways. I have the sads.

[btimbit]

I'm not done being a fan, no way. But I am done spending a cent on anything Flames related until they get their crap together

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by heep223

This is the most disappointing season that I can remember, in many ways. I have the sads.

Yeah, I thought I couldn't be any more embarrassed than I was after the playoffs in 2019 but I was wrong. The worst we should have been worrying about was another first round chokejob.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Yeah, I thought I couldn't be any more embarrassed than I was after the playoffs in 2019 but I was wrong. The worst we should have been worrying about was another first round chokejob.

What is the commonality?

The core didn’t meet expectations in either situation.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by timbit

What is the commonality?

The core didn’t meet expectations in either situation.

Yep, I wanted the core changed then too.

[djsFlames]

Team needs a definitive direction again.

No shuffling here and shuffling there. No "do it to just make them competitive enough for next season cause STHs"

Execute a larger plan. I don't even know where we are at currently. Are we still looking at a window to compete, calling the time under Ward an outlier? Are we trying to create a new window in 2-3 seasons via a retool? Have we written that off and now eyeing a complete overhaul and restart?

Analyze the team. Decide where you're at, then make your next decisions all be in accordance with what you have decided.

We've talked about process for years but I've lost track of what that process is, and where we are at in the progression of said process.

I actually don't care whether they aim to compete now still and remain on target for a push short term or if they go full rebuild. Just decide, and make that decision crystal clear to all of us so we're no longer guessing. And commit to whatever that decision is.

I'd love a letter to the fanbase alike what the Rangers and Senators did. Just no BS or secrecy any more please.

Mediocrity is perpetuated by hanging out somewhere between point a and b and shuffling your feet.

[bobbylouie]

I'm always hesitant to post any grand proclamation summarizing a team's performance in a game or especially in an entire season because it always seems incomplete or lacking in some way, but strangely enough, this commentary from an outside source really captures the essence of the Flames' season.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I'm not done being a fan, no way. But I am done spending a cent on anything Flames related until they get their crap together

I spent $200 on tickets to game 5 against Colorado 2 years ago, that was the last straw for me and I vowed to never give this organization another dime. The Flames will actually have to win another Stanley Cup to convince me they're anything other than an also-ran placeholder franchise

[Tsawwassen]

Post game links
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/games/2300557
http://sportsstats.cbc.ca/hockey/nhl...cap134386.html