[PGT] Flames lose 4-2 to Ottawa

[chedder]

Originally Posted by dino7c

No he isn't...he is an RFA the guy is 23

Oops. I'm wrong. For some reason I thought he was ufa.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

That's it for me. The Flames don't want to work too hard to win, they want to win on their terms. So when another team is taking the play to them they just shrink and pack it in.

They're an extremely easy team to play against. No push back, not physical, can't score, don't care.

IMO, this is a lack of attention on the culture.


I have said this before, but one of the only positive things that Feaster did was help eradicate this losing culture - I think he called it a disease. The team under Hartley were bad, but the one thing that they did was out-work most teams.


Successive coaches in Gulutzan and Ward (not sure about Peters, TBH) who didn't practice with any tempo allowed the disease to return.


I also think that Treliving worsened the situation not just with his coaching hires, but also in some moves. This team became easier to play against physically, especially in the top 6, and easier in the playoffs after getting rid of some of the strongest playoff performers this core has had - guys like Brodie, Ferland and Bennett. Not to say that he didn't get value in (some of) those deals, but what is he building here exactly?


Ferland was a monster in the playoffs - gone.
Brodie has been BY FAR the best defencemen in the playoffs - gone.
Bennett was one of the few that elevated his game - gone.


I don't know about you guys, but I try to keep the players that help me win games when I most need them won. I would rather overpay on deals for players that don't do squat in the playoffs, and try to keep all my playoff performers. I want to try and add more playoff performers.


Just a lot of toughness and speed gone in those trades. Just a bunch of coaches that allowed the Flames to bring back this 'losing culture'.


I am glad that Darryl is here. Team is practicing faster. Team is starting to look better. Team is giving up less defensively. It is going in the right direction. This off-season will be huge. Hope the Flames are figuring out who needs to go.


It is one thing to say that I want the Flames to be huge, fast and highly skilled. That's just not going to happen without winning a few lotteries - and even then those players aren't always around. However, this team needs to bring in quick players who are tenacious with non-stop motors. They have a coach that demands that. They just now need players that are willing to be that.


I do not like how this team can only be physical in the bottom 6 now though for the most part. That's an issue to me, though not as much of an issue as their lack of tenacity is.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by zamler

Would you rather Ward was still coaching this team?

No. I'm saying the bump many (as well as myself) expected has never happened. This team still looks lost, slow, unmotivated, bad.

The 'fire Ward and get a real coach in there' posts we had to endure over and over and over and over again in so many threads just proved to be wrong. This is just a bad team, regardless of the coach.

[Dajazz]

Good.

I can finally shut down this season and focus on positive things instead.

Looking forward to the draft and next year.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

When did I say that? He got his silver stick tonight and most of his actual dollars are already paid. I was just listening to his interview and wondering if he really wants to play another 82 when he is already set for life.

5.25M bottom six player...I would love him at a reasonable price but that isn't possible.

He is better than the player Brad would sign for 5.25 million a year, so if we are stuck with Brad probably safer that Lucic still plays.

[flames_fan_down_under]

The team is just so poorly constructed that it all came to a head this year.

A top centre that if he isn't scoring goals. is not really producing enough in other areas to make up for the lack of goals, and unfortunately this year he really isn't scoring many goals at all.

Our most skilled player is a small winger afraid of the middle of the ice, avoids contact, and is extremely easy to push off the puck, oh he also comes with serious question marks regarding a consistent compete level.

And our other top winger in Tkachuk is not a great skater and seems to have lost a lot of what makes him effective.

Our 24 year old winger who is 6th in ice time among forwards leads them all in even strength goals.

Markstrom isn't consistently outplaying the other teams goalie.

It's a mess.

[alnigi]

It remains to be seen if Juolevi can be valuable to Vancouver. I wonder if there was a reason they bypassed Tkachuk.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by AC

I like the notion that you somehow consider using the Tkachuk money elsewhere instead of signing him.

As if we have a chance at signing top free agents.

More likely we use that money to sign 3 slow 3rd liners.

This is probably the mentality that Buffalo used when they extended Skinner.

I hope the Flames don't have this thought process, even if there is admittedly merit to it.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by alnigi

It remains to be seen if Juolevi can be valuable to Vancouver. I wonder if there was a reason they bypassed Tkachuk.

He is having a tough season...he has 265 NHL points though. On pace for 55 in a terrible year for the entire team he will likely be a 70 point player with all the other things. Lets not go pretending Benning has a clue what he is doing.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

No. I'm saying the bump many (as well as myself) expected has never happened. This team still looks lost, slow, unmotivated, bad.

The 'fire Ward and get a real coach in there' posts we had to endure over and over and over and over again in so many threads just proved to be wrong. This is just a bad team, regardless of the coach.

I think this is kneejerk. Their overall body of work the past few games has been better, more structured

Ward was a #### coach, didn’t have the players’ ears

Ottawa is somehow in their heads, and they aren’t out of the woods. Even if Sutter has the right ideas, he can’t be guaranteed to fix everything at the snap of a finger

First 10 games were a couple of games of bounce, then a lot of tentative and bizarre decision making. Then a bunch of games with no practice.

Transformation takes time. The team doesn’t have that luxury but all we can do is look at another 3 day break after a terrible lapse and see how the next 3 games go

[zamler]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

No. I'm saying the bump many (as well as myself) expected has never happened. This team still looks lost, slow, unmotivated, bad.

The 'fire Ward and get a real coach in there' posts we had to endure over and over and over and over again in so many threads just proved to be wrong. This is just a bad team, regardless of the coach.

Bringing in Sutter seems like a win win to me. As far as I'm concerned the question of is this core pretenders or contenders has definitively been answered because of Sutter.

[BagoPucks]

Ottawa is a heavy team that works hard. You need skill to make them freeze and back off. We don't have skill or size to compete with that hard working team. I can explain it to myself I guess

[flames_fan_down_under]

It's just too bad it took this long for this core to be exposed for what they truly are.

[dino7c]

Sens are over .500 if you take out the first month

Anyone who takes them lightly deserves what they get. Most of their early struggles were mostly on goal tending too which seems to have improved.

[Strange Brew]

It’s scary the amount of change this club seems to need. Impossible to accomplish in one off season.

[NewFan]

If this team wants to become the cup contender they need full rebuild starting right now.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by zamler

Bringing in Sutter seems like a win win to me. As far as I'm concerned the question of is this core pretenders or contenders has definitively been answered because of Sutter.

I've felt that they were pretenders for a couple/few years now, but fair enough. I like Sutter. I expected the team to respond better than they have. I knew there was a rotten core, but man it's really been hilighted since he took over. No desperation. If you can't play desperate hockey with Sutter behind the bench then it shouldn't be a major trade or two this offseason, it should be a massive facelift. I expect nothing less from Treliving, he's been too loyal to this group but now it's painfully obvious it just ain't happening. Time to rip it apart.

[dino7c]

Tre doesn't have much to lose at this point...another bad season and he is done IMO

I highly doubt he brings the team back without a major shakeup. They aren't allowing much, they have the puck most of the game, they need some easy offence.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

With all due respect, that’s an extremely weak take. Gaudreau is basically the only player on this team who can cut east to west laterally and make plays. No other winger is even remotely dangerous in transition by comparison.

Also, I really wouldn’t be comparing Monahan to Gaudreau right now, outside of his empty net goal. His line has been a complete dud offensively. Actually, Monahan’s line is a big reason why this team isn’t getting enough goals right now. If he or his linemates potted just one goal in one of the last 2 games, maybe the Flames escape with a shootout win or an OT loss, but instead it’s zilch in 2. Gaudreau’s line has been the best performing unit out of anything I’ve seen in the last 5 games based on the eye test and the statistics.

Meh. Lucic has been a more dangerous winger than Gaudreau. I’ve already said Monahan’s line is not producing. But IMO he’s playing a whole lot more effectively than Gaudreau given what he’s got. I know you’re enamoured with your “score off the rush” notion, but you actually have to score off the rush then. They got a fluke goal that Murray didn’t cover. Monahan is playing with a 2nd round sophomore and a 3rd year 6th round guy guy and looking not bad doing it. Plus they are miles better in their own zone. Gaudreau is playing with two high first rounders. They’d damned well better be scoring more.

[Manhattanboy]

Could we pry away one of Ottawa’s young guys (Batherson) for M Tkachuk? You have to think it would be appealing to the Sens to have both brothers.