I don't think he purposefully coached them to be slow, but I am not sure that he actually coached them to be fast either, and I am making the assumptions on two things that I regularly saw:
1) Flames would exit the zone slowly all too often. I didn't sense that Ward was telling them to move the puck quicker. He seemed to be fine on those all too common occurrences. Maybe I am being a bit unfair here, and he did continually try to make them exit the zone at speed, but it didn't appear to me that he did based on how often the players were doing so, and his demeanour on the bench at times as the camera panned.
2) The comment today about how fast-paced practice was. Ward apparently wasn't having fast practices. I can assume speed wasn't something he was coaching for if they never practiced with that speed. Maybe he didn't want slow, but since he never practiced at game-speed, one could then assume he wasn't coaching the Flames to actually be fast either.
They did have a lot of fast paced games though. Early on in the season it was pretty consistent, until the Vancouver series where they seemed to stop.
Those two Toronto losses in January for example were very fast paced games.
Can't disagree on the Tanev comment though, that was telling. Perhaps Ward was more of a talk it out strategy practice guy and less of a get the body up and pumping to the level it would in a game.
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They did have a lot of fast paced games though. Early on in the season it was pretty consistent, until the Vancouver series where they seemed to stop.
Those two Toronto losses in January for example were very fast paced games.
Can't disagree on the Tanev comment though, that was telling. Perhaps Ward was more of a talk it out strategy practice guy and less of a get the body up and pumping to the level it would in a game.
The games have picked up speed over the course of the season, but they haven't? It is a lot of things obviously, it isn't as simple as just one thing. But I do believe conditioning is a factor, and they seem to be getting slower and slower.
Their confusion also seems to have been building as the season has gone on. They are probably related.
Anyway, I am just glad that the Sutter Era has begun.
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The games have picked up speed over the course of the season, but they haven't? It is a lot of things obviously, it isn't as simple as just one thing. But I do believe conditioning is a factor, and they seem to be getting slower and slower.
Their confusion also seems to have been building as the season has gone on. They are probably related.
Anyway, I am just glad that the Sutter Era has begun.
Plus the schedule.
The Flames had fewer games played than most teams through January, and then likely played more than other teams since to catch up to the pack.
They've likely gone through one of if not the worst section of their schedule this year.
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They sure think they can. But you are correct. You can't tell if they are playing a bad "system", not executing properly, or both. I find it hard to believe that any system coaches only perimeter play, or getting blue line turnovers, though.
Frankly, I think systems are best for D, and for breakouts (and even then I think there should be 3-4 options to defeat an opposing strategy). In the offensive zone, you take what you can, play hard and win pucks, get the pucks to the net using the best skill and drive you can. People are guilty of thinking systems and line combos mostly with respect to offence, and I am willing to bet coaches put lines together and work on systems mainly for their own side of the centre line.
Absolutely agree with your statement in general. Offense can't be taught at the player level easily, as a player you ultimately have it or you don't, but it boils down to carry it or dump it and chase it. Use 2 fore-checkers and when is it safe, for the D to pinch and just try and screw up the other guys into mistakes. The other team has the same basic defensive system as well. That's why it's almost always a game of mistakes.
I enjoy watching defenses work properly and realizing who really screwed up when the goal is scored against you. Isn't always obvious and the intermission groups spot it all the time.
If the opposition is cycling the puck in your end, a couple of things are always right and always wrong.
D and Centers have take care of the back boards and in front of the net. The center isn't always the first forward back and so the first winger back needs to be right in there defending/chasing all the way. But when that center is back, usually very quickly, then he needs to communicate hes back to the winger.
Pucks go here and there and as soon as possible that winger now has to get back to his wall to cover a point and watch the slot and of course be ready for break out pass. "Head on a swivel". You'll see wingers get caught too deep in their own end all the time and someones left open. Defending as a winger is tougher than it looks. I've recently seen Gaudreau back deep first and when Monahan got back he clearly shouted and pointed to Gaudreau and Gaudreau promptly went back up the wall.
In a perfect world one of the D or the center is always in front of the net while the other two guys fight for the puck. The wingers are above the circles or along the wall. When you get possession hopefully the center and 1 D are in middle moving up to take that pass from the wall. You all see this a hundred times a game and every one does it. If you have to just fire the puck up the boards from there I believe your system is breaking down under the pressure.
Even when its done right players make bad decisions on passes around the boards or the break out pass (Love Lucic and he is definitely doing better but boy did he screw that up a few times early!).
Every team stalks the wingers who have to be on the wall for break outs that's what the D pinch is all about. They see the breakout pass too and if its safe will pinch.
The system IS there and there are some different plays for different situations but it is there. In the end can Sutter cut down the turn overs and bad passes? Hopefully. At least its not a democracy down there any more!
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Absolutely agree with your statement in general. Offense can't be taught at the player level easily, as a player you ultimately have it or you don't, but it boils down to carry it or dump it and chase it. Use 2 fore-checkers and when is it safe, for the D to pinch and just try and screw up the other guys into mistakes. The other team has the same basic defensive system as well. That's why it's almost always a game of mistakes.
I enjoy watching defenses work properly and realizing who really screwed up when the goal is scored against you. Isn't always obvious and the intermission groups spot it all the time.
If the opposition is cycling the puck in your end, a couple of things are always right and always wrong.
D and Centers have take care of the back boards and in front of the net. The center isn't always the first forward back and so the first winger back needs to be right in there defending/chasing all the way. But when that center is back, usually very quickly, then he needs to communicate hes back to the winger.
Pucks go here and there and as soon as possible that winger now has to get back to his wall to cover a point and watch the slot and of course be ready for break out pass. "Head on a swivel". You'll see wingers get caught too deep in their own end all the time and someones left open. Defending as a winger is tougher than it looks. I've recently seen Gaudreau back deep first and when Monahan got back he clearly shouted and pointed to Gaudreau and Gaudreau promptly went back up the wall.
In a perfect world one of the D or the center is always in front of the net while the other two guys fight for the puck. The wingers are above the circles or along the wall. When you get possession hopefully the center and 1 D are in middle moving up to take that pass from the wall. You all see this a hundred times a game and every one does it. If you have to just fire the puck up the boards from there I believe your system is breaking down under the pressure.
Even when its done right players make bad decisions on passes around the boards or the break out pass (Love Lucic and he is definitely doing better but boy did he screw that up a few times early!).
Every team stalks the wingers who have to be on the wall for break outs that's what the D pinch is all about. They see the breakout pass too and if its safe will pinch.
The system IS there and there are some different plays for different situations but it is there. In the end can Sutter cut down the turn overs and bad passes? Hopefully. At least its not a democracy down there any more!
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Watching the highlights from Sutter’s media availability the words stern, wisdom and humility come to mind.
He is exactly what these players need. The benefits to the likes of Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Bennett and Valimaki should not be underestimated.
I’ll restrain myself from predicting a score, but I think they are going to run the Habs out of the building.
I hope you’re right... my personal opinion is they’re going to suck and it’s going to take awhile to turn them around... this iteration of the Flames have fooled me too many times.
This is a deeply flawed core that will get a small up tick from a better NHL coach, but not even he can save them.
Coaching issue in that one of the top 20 coaches of all time is an upgrade, but not a coaching issue necessarily in that this group is a mess and will likely still be a mess under the upgrade.
Happy to be wrong!
but I don't agree with your "other words"
I think the issue comes from trying to decide where “blame” or “fault” lies. I don’t think it has to mean “the team is flawed” or “the coach was bad” (re Ward). I think the perspective is about “need” or “fit”.
If this team responds to Sutter, I think they will have proven something. They NEED a hard ass coach to perform. Their best seasons with a large number of this group have been in under hard ass Hartley and hard ass Peters. And they have absolutely floundered under “players coaches” GG and Ward.
But what I don’t think it means is the group is flawed if that’s what it means, it’s just what they respond best to. What annoys me is I feel BT (who I’ve liked) pretty much said this when he hired Peters. And I get it, the need to fire Peters wasn’t an expected outcome, but why did he come back with “players coach” Ward after the fact when he’d already learnt this group needs accountability forced on then?
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I hope you’re right... my personal opinion is they’re going to suck and it’s going to take awhile to turn them around... this iteration of the Flames have fooled me too many times.
Well if it is it will be another bag skate until they get it right!
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Mentally fragile group since the Avalanche put them on a split and turned them over coals for 5 games.
Ward inherited that mess and couldn't fortify them on his own.
Sutter was literally the leadership of the 2004 team. They were never the same when he stepped aside. If that's still the case, then they have a shot of being better at handling adversity.
There really isn't a better coach out there for what they need. Still shocked they went out and did it.
I’m still shocked they did it. And a little frustrated that it took this long. Literally one of the best coaches in the history of the game who happens to want to coach for you.
This season is now hanging in the balance, in a year in which a trip to the semis had never been more in reach, given the competition.
I just hope we get the new coach bounce because I think it’s 30 games before the culture really starts to shift and these guys believe in their ability to win under his leadership. That doesn’t happen overnight.
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Absolutely agree with your statement in general. Offense can't be taught at the player level easily, as a player you ultimately have it or you don't, but it boils down to carry it or dump it and chase it. Use 2 fore-checkers and when is it safe, for the D to pinch and just try and screw up the other guys into mistakes. The other team has the same basic defensive system as well. That's why it's almost always a game of mistakes.
...
This was a great breakdown.
I don’t know how you know all this stuff but please tell us more.
I’d like to understand your thoughts on the space the Flames currently give to the points in their own zone. Same thing with wingers cycling along the boards.
Mentally fragile group since the Avalanche put them on a split and turned them over coals for 5 games.
Ward inherited that mess and couldn't fortify them on his own.
Sutter was literally the leadership of the 2004 team. They were never the same when he stepped aside. If that's still the case, then they have a shot of being better at handling adversity.
There really isn't a better coach out there for what they need. Still shocked they went out and did it.
The playoff collapse against Dallas didn’t help their mental fortitude either.
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Mentally fragile group since the Avalanche put them on a split and turned them over coals for 5 games.
Ward inherited that mess and couldn't fortify them on his own.
Sutter was literally the leadership of the 2004 team. They were never the same when he stepped aside. If that's still the case, then they have a shot of being better at handling adversity.
There really isn't a better coach out there for what they need. Still shocked they went out and did it.
Fully agreed.
Losing to the Avs in the playoffs was one thing, but losing the following season opener against them too after having a whole summer to ruminate on their embarrassment spoke volumes about the team. They had no pride, no spine, and no hatred of losing. I lost a lot of faith in the team when they lost that season opener.
Sutter is best chance they have of providing the leader the team needs. He has the capacity to be the new heart for this tin man team, just as he was in 2004.
If he can build that character, they will become a much easier team to cheer for again.
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
