[PGT] Flames Lose to Canucks by a lot of goals

[SuperMatt18]

Honestly i’ve never been more frustrated with a coach than I am Ward.

We finally have a goalie, and this team is playing the worst hockey they have since 13-14. Gulutzan’s teams were better than this and had a lot less to work with.

This core has its issues and needs a shake up but man has Ward made this team even worse this season with his questionable lineup decisions and passive grind it out system that doesn’t suit this roster at all.

Originally Posted by dino7c

Be honest with yourselves...nothing Ward said tonight would satisfy you

I would love some accountability from him.

“I need to be better”

“I made some bad decisions tonight and the blame starts with me”

“Vancouver has adjusted to how we play and and I didn’t make the necessary adjustments”

Any accountability would be nice.

He’s never once in his time taken any accountability for issues with the team or his own mistakes. Hell he even tried to throw Talbot under the bus after he made the ridiculous decision to pull him in the playoffs.

A real leader takes accountability and all he ever does is come out and blame the players.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Maybe you tell him that he has to for the good of the team.

The current configuration of too many centers and not enough wingers is clearly hurting the team in a big way.

I agree, but Ward is such a players' coach, you know.

[simonarea]

And...
Why
Is
Our
Pp
Shiet???!!
Again and again...

[Burning Beard]

Ugly ugly hockey. Why do we never get a proven coach. Even when this team wins this year it's just ugly games.

[GG51]

Originally Posted by zamler

Stolen without permission from HF. Thanks to the person that did this.

3rd period lines

Spoiler!

Lucic – Bennett – Dube
Tkachuk – Lindholm – Mangiapane
Gaudreau – Monahan – Ritchie
Mangiapane – Backlund – Nordstrom
Tkachuk – Lindholm – Dube
Bennett – Backlund – Lucic
Gaudreau – Monahan – Ritchie
Tkachuk – Lindholm – Mangiapane
Lucic – Bennett – Dube
Gaudreau – Monahan – Ritchie
Tkachuk – Lindholm – Mangiapane
Nordstrom – Backlund – Simon
Lucic – Bennett – Dube
Tkachuk – Lindholm – x (incomplete)
Tkachuk – Backlund – Mangiapane
Gaudreau – Monahan – Ritchie
Tkachuk – Monahan – Lindholm – Gaudreau – Andersson
Backlund – Dube – Mangiapane – Lucic – Giordano
Nordstrom – Bennett – Ritchie
Tkachuk – Lindholm – Mangiapane
Mangiapane – Backlund – Nordstrom
Nordstrom – Backlund – Simon
Lucic – Bennett – Dube
Mangiapane – Lindholm – Tkachuk
Ritchie – Monahan – Gaudreau
Simon – Backlund – Nordstrom

Ward may as well being using a random line generator.

LOL for the line generator, maybe we can get a Monahan – Lindholm – Gaudreau line with it

[zamler]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

1. Elite #1 center (eg. Crosby, Toews) - we don't have that

You're right we don't. But even elite players can be stifled by a no nothing coach it happened to Crosby when Johnston was HC. Entire Pittsburgh team was lifeless.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Many people have had this conversation many times. Over and over again.

We saw a change in style of the second placed team in the entire league post all star game when Peters started preparing them to play the way they need to in the playoffs (as if he had dons anything with Carolina there)

We have three proven lines plus an upgrade in goaltending vs smartest guy in the room and his trusty blender

It’s kind of exhausting

Please don't talk down to me.

Just because you and others have had the same conversation doesn't mean you're right.

There's one constant with this underachieving/mediocre core. It's not the coach.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Please don't talk down to me.

Just because you and others have had the same conversation doesn't mean you're right.

There's one constant with this underachieving/mediocre core. It's not the coach.

I feel like this is some bizarre form of a logical fallacy. We never get a legit coach then say, well it's not the coach we keep trying new ones and the team still under achieves.

[btimbit]

I understand people saying it's not just the coach, but at the same time I do believe we have some very good players in Calgary. They're just playing systems and a style that doesn't suit them.

The biggest issue is transitioning up the ice. They should be focusing on fast clean breakouts. Get the puck and send it up ice before the other team can get set. Instead, the focus seems to be a slower methodical attack as a unit type. The team is too easy to forecheck against for that to work and we see that with the number of turnovers.

It's the same thing we saw with Gulutzan, it's not that it's a bad system, but it's a square peg in a round hole for the makeup of this team.

[Redrum]

Speed 2: Cruise Control eventually took the TV over from the game. Impressive, Flames.

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

I saw absolutely head-scratching shifts from certain players and that was when the game was close. The lack of effort is alarming.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

There's one constant with this underachieving/mediocre core. It's not the coach.

Just because the coach changed a number of times, doesn't mean the coaching hasn't been (for the most part) consistently bad.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

I feel like people who are hoping Ward gets fired are just clinging to false hope. Yes, Ward is a problem. But we also just have a really inconsistent group of players. The whole make-up of this team is just mediocre, from top down.

I think championship teams have the following:
1. Elite #1 center (eg. Crosby, Toews) - we don't have that
2. Elite #1 defenseman (eg. Hedman, Pietrangelo) - we don't have that
3. Elite goaltender (eg. Vasilevsky, Rask) - we have that!
4. Good coach (eg. Cooper, Julien) - we don't have that
5. Depth scoring and shut down defense (eg. TB and Chicago's forward depth when they won their cups, LA and St
Louis's defense when they won) - we don't have that
6. Buy in to a team system and identity (eg. St. Louis's and LA's power game, TB's structure) - we don't have that

At this point, I'm hoping Ward gets fired too. We hire a competent coach and we might go on a run like the Hartley run and the Peters division championship. But those runs will not last and they will definitely not win us a Cup. We just have way too many pieces missing. This team is the definition of mediocrity and has been for a long time.

Things are not mutually exclusive. I think the coach needs to be fired and I think there's a lot of gaps and skill problems on the team. Everything from size, to grit, to the lack of a back-up, to compete level etc.
But I also think you could bring in huge changes and without a quality coach you're not going to get the best out of what you do have. And lets face it all teams have gaps, and poor elements and shortages of this and that.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Please don't talk down to me.

Just because you and others have had the same conversation doesn't mean you're right.

There's one constant with this underachieving/mediocre core. It's not the coach.

You put a nickel in the vending machine and nothing comes out. You put in another nickel, and then three more. Still nothing. Must be something wrong with the machine.

Or it might be that you need $1.75 to get the candy bar. Who knew?

But you will never know if it's the machine if you don't spend the whole $1.75.

The players can't take on the role of the coach. It doesn't matter how many incompetent coaches you have tried, until you try a competent one, you will never know what you have as a team. Name one current or former Flames coach from the past decade who accomplished anything before or after their stints with the Flames.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by zamler

I feel like this is some bizarre form of a logical fallacy. We never get a legit coach then say, well it's not the coach we keep trying new ones and the team still under achieves.

It is possible it is a combination of averge coaching as well as a core that just doesn't click/work/win.

[Boreal]

They’re mentally weak.

Not even elite goaltending can save them.

Once Horvat scored to make it 2-0 I knew they were done. They dominated them Canucks but couldn’t execute. Then the air went out.

I don’t get it. There are 5 core players from the 2014-15 “find a way Flames”.

That team was relentless when they were down and this team is lost with a bad goal or missed opportunities scoring after dominating an opponent and then can’t make a pass and regain confidence no matter what the circumstances are.

[Mr.Coffee]

I’m not sure I really care what exactly the problem is but I do want them to do something (sorta major, personnel wise).

At minimum they should consider something drastic like leaving Tkachuk in the press box Friday night. Not like he’s helping anyway.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Please don't talk down to me.

Just because you and others have had the same conversation doesn't mean you're right.

There's one constant with this underachieving/mediocre core. It's not the coach.

You misunderstood. Not talking down to you

It is exhausting to be able to bring evidence to support a strategy that the coach refuses to implement

This #### has worked right under his nose

13-23-28 - a top line in the league
19-11-88 - top down the stretch just last year
17-93-29 - best line in the playoffs

Just ####ing do it, Ward. For 10 games.

And play fast.

Nothing your blender does places probability over hope.

We saw under Brent Sutter good players implementing a strategy that was awful and suited for junior. That’s where we are again

Damn right we have an unproven and underachieving coach

[nik-]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It is possible it is a combination of averge coaching as well as a core that just doesn't click/work/win.

That plus an unwillingness to accept soon enough that it's not working seem to be the Calgary Flames Trident.

[browna]

Originally Posted by dino7c

He wasn't up to his usual standard for sure...the two "bad goals" being a break away and a 2 on 1 says a lot though. Both were created because of mistakes of the skaters

Benn’s was a fluke. He flubbed the shot with a half open net but luckily went in between the legs. Markstrom needed a rest after trying to get mentally up for 4 straight games vs teammates, but it was the right call, as a 80% Markstrom is vastly superior to Rittich. Zero confidence in Rittich and the Flames will have to score 5 or more to beat the Oilers with him in net Friday.

So, back to this mini series; pretty much all 4 games the Canucks were the more prepared team from the drop of the puck, and each game were ready for what the Flames were going to throw at them, making subtle adjustments to combat what they thought the Flames were going to come at them with, based on the way the Flames played them in first game they played a few weeks back. Flames game to game adjustments this series were some line up changes mostly forced because of injuries.
The other “strategy” is throw the lines in the blender for short spurts and hope ice cream magically pops out.

Like GG 3 years ago, if the players don’t have the confidence that the coach can figure this all out, it’s going to demoralize things further and players are going to start playing for themselves because the coach doesn’t have the answers.