[News] Flames trade down (twice) to the 24th OA pick and select C Connor Zary

[David Struch]

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/connor-zary

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Makarov

That's not correct. 2003 was a deep draft. 75% of the players drafted in the first round of that draft not only played in the NHL, but were impact players. I hope Zary is an impact player for us.

They were talking top liners, and even in 2003, by far the best draft of all time, only maybe 10 guys were top line, top pairing guys.

(I would include these 9: Fleury, Suter, Phaneuf, Carter, Seabrook, Parise, Getzlaf, Burns, Perry)

Sure, more than that were impact guys, because you can be a 2nd liner and be an impact guy

(I would include these guys as 2nd line, impact guys: Staal, Vanek, Brown, Kesler, Richards)

In normal drafts, getting a middle 6 guy late in the first round, is pretty much a home run. Backlund was a perfect comparison

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Makarov

That's not correct. 2003 was a deep draft. 75% of the players drafted in the first round of that draft not only played in the NHL, but were impact players. I hope Zary is an impact player for us.

The discussion was first line players. Even in 2003, I count 10 or 12 out of 30 that I’d call real first liners, a couple busts, a couple disappointments and the rest were solid middle sixers/second pairing guys.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They were talking top liners, and even in 2003, by far the best draft of all time, only maybe 10 guys were top line, top pairing guys.

(I would include these 9: Fleury, Suter, Phaneuf, Carter, Seabrook, Parise, Getzlaf, Burns, Perry)

Sure, more than that were impact guys, because you can be a 2nd liner and be an impact guy

(I would include these guys as 2nd line, impact guys: Staal, Vanek, Brown, Kesler, Richards)

In normal drafts, getting a middle 6 guy late in the first round, is pretty much a home run. Backlund was a perfect comparison

At their peaks, all of those "second line players" were in fact first line players.

[David Struch]

I wonder if Jakob Pelletier and Connor Zary were linemates at the 2019 IIHF U18 World Championship?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Makarov

At their peaks, all of those "second line players" were in fact first line players.

Brown? Kesler? Nahhh. And the others’ peak was pretty short (also Phaneuf). And even if you include those guys that’s 12-13 guys out of 30.

[sureLoss]

David Pagnotta @TheFourthPeriod
Sharks Dir. of Scouting Doug Wilson Jr. gave props to Calgary for moving down twice and getting 2 extra 3rd round picks in doing so.

He also said he expects tomorrow to be active, in terms of teams trying to move up/down in the subsequent rounds.

[Enoch Root]

Most drafts, it's more like a half dozen

[djsFlames]

A deep draft does not mean you have 30 first liners in it.

Even good ones, outside of the anomaly that was 2003, have about a handful. But it being deep could mean you have middle six caliber players into the second round following that top group. And that's pretty well the case here I'd say.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

and even in 2003, by far the best draft of all time

That is not true. The best draft of all time was 1979 when they lowered the draft age and essentially had 2 years worth of top prospects. 2003 doesn't even come close to '79. That draft produced 17 players to play 1000+ games, 7 players that reached 1000+ points, 3 scored 500+ goals (another at 498) and 9 recorded 500+ assists. Also there was more than a full rounds worth of players to record at least 1000 PIMs, including Tim & Dale Hunter who recorder over 6700 PIMs combined.

The 1979 draft only consisted of 126 picks, only 23 never played an NHL game.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

That is not true. The best draft of all time was 1979 when they lowered the draft age and essentially had 2 years worth of top prospects. 2003 doesn't even come close to '79. That draft produced 17 players to play 1000+ games, 7 players that reached 1000+ points, 3 scored 500+ goals (another at 498) and 9 recorded 500+ assists. Also there was more than a full rounds worth of players to record at least 1000 PIMs, including Tim & Dale Hunter who recorder over 6700 PIMs combined.

The 1979 draft only consisted of 126 picks, only 23 never played an NHL game.

yeah, fair enough - 1979 was deeper for the reason you mentioned

point stands

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

100% of 1st round picks are 1st round picks. #Facts

100% of all players taken outside of the first round go on to never become a first round pick. #MoreFacts

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Brown? Kesler? Nahhh. And the others’ peak was pretty short (also Phaneuf). And even if you include those guys that’s 12-13 guys out of 30.

I feel like Kesler was easily one of the best 30 centres in NHL for several years.

Anyway, I still think I would like my 1st round pick in a deep draft to have a legitimate chance to be a first line player. And maybe Zary does. I hope so.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by Makarov

At their peaks, all of those "second line players" were in fact first line players.

Loui Eriksson, Patrice Bergeron, shea weber were second rounders in that draft. Top 6 winger until he went to Vancouver, #1 center, #1 d man. All available at the 24th pick.

Pavelski, enstrom, byfuglien also in that draft but were late flyers.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I feel like Kesler was easily one of the best 30 centres in NHL for several years.

Anyway, I still think I would like my 1st round pick in a deep draft to have a legitimate chance to be a first line player. And maybe Zary does. I hope so.

From picks 19-30 (31 now) maybe 1 or 2 guys per year become top liners/top pairing, on average

[Wood]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

They were talking top liners, and even in 2003, by far the best draft of all time, only maybe 10 guys were top line, top pairing guys.

(I would include these 9: Fleury, Suter, Phaneuf, Carter, Seabrook, Parise, Getzlaf, Burns, Perry)

Sure, more than that were impact guys, because you can be a 2nd liner and be an impact guy

(I would include these guys as 2nd line, impact guys: Staal, Vanek, Brown, Kesler, Richards)

In normal drafts, getting a middle 6 guy late in the first round, is pretty much a home run. Backlund was a perfect comparison

I'm only quoting to disagree with Staal being a 2nd line guy

Sure now at the end of his career he's a 2nd or 3rd line centre, but most of his career he was absolutely a #1

How many 2nd line guys have over 1000 points, several seasons over a PPG, a 100 point season, and a Stanley Cup win where he was the highest scoring player in the playoffs?

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I feel like Kesler was easily one of the best 30 centres in NHL for several years.

Anyway, I still think I would like my 1st round pick in a deep draft to have a legitimate chance to be a first line player. And maybe Zary does. I hope so.

I feel like those are ridiculously high hopes that will only set you up for disappointment. Many top 10 picks never become first liners. I look at it this way, in an average year when it comes to my expectations:

1-5: First line
6-15: Second line
16-30: Third line
31-60: Fourth line
61+ depth

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

https://twitter.com/user/status/1313672771013160960

That’s actually a pretty neat model he built there.

[Barca]

who did you guys want? Zary seems like a good pick... his compable is Horvat

[djsFlames]

With the odd Gaudreau, Kucherov, Benn golden tickets sprinkled in there.