Flames Garbage Day Quotes

[bluejays]

I really don't like when GM's talk about the whole body of work when asking about what went wrong. There are 100 reasons why any team didn't win, but there are a select few main factors that should be addressed, some public, some private. Saying let's look at the full body of work is a little too much management speak.

[Royle9]

You love to listen to this and as a fan want to believe everything you hear but you simply cannot.

They said this SAME thing last year, almost verbatim and the same players were invisible. I'm done with the mediocrity, its time to move on from this core and bring in some new players with a new vision and harder work ethic.

If that means coach + players or just players so be it.

This core has been given ample opportunity and recycled the same garbage bag day quotes for 4 years now.

Fool me 4 times shame on me.

[Bankai]

Coaching is so key at every level. Instead of chasing a Taylor Hall, why not go after the elite coaches? Seems like a no brainer.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He's singling out Gaudreau as the reason the Flames lost. Granted it's fair to criticize him for not producing 5 on 5 because he wasn't as good as the Flames needed him to be but what about Giordano, Monahan and Lindholm? If even two of them step up maybe we are talking about the Flames in a 2nd round game thread. Tkachuk hasn't produced offensively at all in the playoffs. There's plenty of blame to go around and to pile on one player publicly on the radio, print, tweets, etc is pretty lame IMO. It's almost like it's personal or something.

I didn't like his way of asking the question, and Gaudreau didn't flinch when asked it which he didn't take personal, but I saw it as such. Wish he didn't only ask Gaudreau that though.

[bluejays]

The team the Flames should be aiming to beat is Colorado. If you can't do that then the team isn't properly built (IMO. The current iteration of the team would probably do well in the East, but the speed in our own division is a little underwhelming. The combo of getting scoring with speed is the first thing I'd be intent of addressing if I were Treliving.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by Bankai

Coaching is so key at every level. Instead of chasing a Taylor Hall, why not go after the elite coaches? Seems like a no brainer.

Why not both?

I agree though, if we don't have an experienced coach next year nothing else will matter IMO. We've wasted too many years of this core with bargain bin coaches

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by CGY12

This is all fine and dandy had the man in charge who operates a particular way shown any signs of improvement in his 6 year tenure. He hasn't proved anything at the NHL level. This feeling of saying anything remotely negative about anybody is exactly the mediocre culture the Flames have built.

Also where did I say rip the players or tip his hand? I said "acknowledgement". As the head of the front office, it is not only you're responsibility to build a contending team, but also be the speaking voice to the fans.

Players want to play for a WINNER first and foremost. If the Flames had a winning culture and put that above anything else, players are going to come. They aren't going to care that the GM, again "acknowledged", his teams and top players failures.

People are way to soft these days.

The Flames are a class organization in a lot of ways but I do think they consistently fall short of expectations, because they kind of don't have any. Iginla was traded in 2013 and now 7 years on into "the rebuild" you never really hear any expectations that the rebuild was actually supposed to yield results.

Maybe its just modern times but every reaction now is ho hum, let's see how it goes next time. At least in the Sutter era there was usually more palpable disappointment when the team failed. The goal for any NHL team ad its management team should be pretty obvious -- become a contender and win a championship (or more). That's all there is to this entire enterprise. I never hear management talk about how they think the rebuild is going, where they think they are or should be, and how they get to the end result that this is all about. Maybe 30 years of first rounds exits is just so deeply engrained in the organization but it would be refreshing to hear that these results actually bother somebody. It has nothing to do with being dramatic in the media or embarrassing players -- but the simple acknowledgment that they fell way short (again) and intend to do something about it because they expect results.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am fine with tweaks, I am fine with a small-large retool, and I am fine with rebuilding.


I do, however, agree with Brad Treliving in that 'this is a good team'. I would like a proven, good coach to confirm if this is a good team or not. If they meet or exceed expectations, then great, and you continue to massage this roster into a winner.


If they fail under a really good coach, then I think you can ascertain that it probably is not coaching. Maybe it is the players. Maybe it is the mix. Maybe it is the philosophy. Maybe it is all of it and you blow it all to h-e-double hockey sticks.


Get a coach with a history of having his teams exceed expectations, especially with multiple finals appearances and preferably some Stanley Cups to his resume.



I know that Treliving had just signed and extension, but one would assume that another below-expectations kind of season might result in his dismissal, or at least the start of the slip from the pan and into the fire.


I am not a believer that "Johnny is not a guy you can win with" - his whole career up to the NHL has revolved around winning. I also think that he 'Can be the guy' - but the NHL is a team sport, and he can't be one of the few guys. It takes an entire team to win - Johnny included.


It is going to be an incredibly interesting season to see who the Flames re-sign and sign, what if any trades happen, and even just what the NHL rolls out in terms of what the upcoming season is going to look like.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I actually think that makes acquiring Hall that much more critical. Tkachuk with Monahan is too slow but if the Flames add Hall he brings speed and is similar to Johnny in that he likes to carry the puck and is a solid playmaker.

Do the Flames really try and give Bennett a huge opportunity and center a line that includes Johnny on his wing?

I don’t think so. I think they should send a message to Johnny that this playoff did not end well, and demote him to Bennett’s line

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Igottago

The Flames are a class organization in a lot of ways but I do think they consistently fall short of expectations, because they kind of don't have any. Iginla was traded in 2013 and now 7 years on into "the rebuild" you never really hear any expectations that the rebuild was actually supposed to yield results.

Maybe its just modern times but every reaction now is ho hum, let's see how it goes next time. At least in the Sutter era there was usually more palpable disappointment when the team failed. The goal for any NHL team ad its management team should be pretty obvious -- become a contender and win a championship (or more). That's all there is to this entire enterprise. I never hear management talk about how they think the rebuild is going, where they think they are or should be, and how they get to the end result that this is all about. Maybe 30 years of first rounds exits is just so deeply engrained in the organization but it would be refreshing to hear that these results actually bother somebody. It has nothing to do with being dramatic in the media or embarrassing players -- but the simple acknowledgment that they fell way short (again) and intend to do something about it because they expect results.

You don't get two first round advances in 30 years with having high expectations from the top down.

The organization based on results is very ho-hum. With how long it took them to finally end the Iginla era, and start a rebuild, which at that point was too late value wise for the players they did get rid of, I think the franchise doesn't have enough passion/desire to be the best in the league.

You don't have to be throwing sticks into the stands every time things don't go well, or throw players under the bus. But I think internally that if there was more quotes from upper management that had stronger language in how they are dissatisfied with another season cut shorter than anticipated, or putting out a public challenge of being a cup contender for the season, it would show some swagger that the club is very serious in wanting to win it all. And when you have that type of attitude, normally the results follow suite with it. Maybe not Stanley Cup every year, but probably would have made the second round of the playoffs and beyond, at least a few more times in the past three decades.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I don’t think so. I think they should send a message to Johnny that this playoff did not end well, and demote him to Bennett’s line

If this was to be done, I don't feel like it should be felt as a demotion for Johnny, and moreso a different look that could form new chemistry.

Hypothetically if the Flames were to not move out a core forward, and could add a top 6 forward to the roster - let's say Hall since he's the flavour of the week - it actually gives you the opportunity to completely redesign the top 6, and see what line combinations could mesh together best.

Gaudreau with Monahan has become stale, because the league has figured Johnny out, and Monahan is unable, or unwilling to carry the play on the breakout when playing with him. Letting Johnny play with another player whom is comfortable carrying the puck into the attack zone themselves, and are a physical player would relieve some pressure off of Gaudreau, and could open up the ice for him, which he badly needs to be effective.

IF Flames can manage to get Hall, and have Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Lindholm, and Bennett as their players to work with in the top 6, that's some strong offensive potential if Bennett can take advantage of the opportunity, and produce with players that are the best offensive players on the roster. Gaudreau would still get a lot of ice time, and who knows, maybe can get back to the 2019 season stats level if it works really well.

It would be sweet if a top 9 like this can be very productive, because come playoff time then, each line has a player that can be catalystic.

Gaudreau-Bennett-Tkachuk
Hall-Monahan-Lindholm
Dube-Backlund-Mangiapane

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Joborule

You don't get two first round advances in 30 years with having high expectations from the top down.

The organization based on results is very ho-hum. With how long it took them to finally end the Iginla era, and start a rebuild, which at that point was too late value wise for the players they did get rid of, I think the franchise doesn't have enough passion/desire to be the best in the league.

You don't have to be throwing sticks into the stands every time things don't go well, or throw players under the bus. But I think internally that if there was more quotes from upper management that had stronger language in how they are dissatisfied with another season cut shorter than anticipated, or putting out a public challenge of being a cup contender for the season, it would show some swagger that the club is very serious in wanting to win it all. And when you have that type of attitude, normally the results follow suite with it. Maybe not Stanley Cup every year, but probably would have made the second round of the playoffs and beyond, at least a few more times in the past three decades.

Agreed. I don't know how many times in the last 10 years we've heard about the culture in the dressing room, establishing an identity, even during the latter Iginla years. Yet it doesn't seem to stem from the top to the front office, and if it doesn't how do you expect it to inside the room?

Class organization no doubt. Players are treated well and they do a lot within the community, but the drive to ice a championship calibre team, just isn't there in my opinion.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Joborule

If this was to be done, I don't feel like it should be felt as a demotion for Johnny, and moreso a different look that could form new chemistry.

Hypothetically if the Flames were to not move out a core forward, and could add a top 6 forward to the roster - let's say Hall since he's the flavour of the week - it actually gives you the opportunity to completely redesign the top 6, and see what line combinations could mesh together best.

Gaudreau with Monahan has become stale, because the league has figured Johnny out, and Monahan is unable, or unwilling to carry the play on the breakout when playing with him. Letting Johnny play with another player whom is comfortable carrying the puck into the attack zone themselves, and are a physical player would relieve some pressure off of Gaudreau, and could open up the ice for him, which he badly needs to be effective.

IF Flames can manage to get Hall, and have Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Monahan, Lindholm, and Bennett as their players to work with in the top 6, that's some strong offensive potential if Bennett can take advantage of the opportunity, and produce with players that are the best offensive players on the roster. Gaudreau would still get a lot of ice time, and who knows, maybe can get back to the 2019 season stats level if it works really well.

It would be sweet if a top 9 like this can be very productive, because come playoff time then, each line has a player that can be catalystic.

Gaudreau-Bennett-Tkachuk
Hall-Monahan-Lindholm
Dube-Backlund-Mangiapane

Yeah, I was just kidding there. Don’t promote Bennett to Johnny’s line, demote Johnny to Bennett’s! Obviously the same resulting pairing, but actually something I want to see

I definitely think Johnny could use a linemate with sandpaper and skill, and the Flames could use a different look by distributing 13 & 23

I also agree about Mang being a middle 6 now and think he is a really strong 3rd liner. That’s a really good looking top 9

[868904]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

This sounfs like the logic that the Leafs had when adding Tavares and dropping Kadri... I don't think it really accomplishes anything. The players who get pushed down the lineup are the do-it-all types like Mangiapane, Dube, Bennett.

The leafs mistake was trading Kadri instead of Nylander, not just for money and cap hit reasons but also for fit reasons, they had too many Nylander types and not enough Kadri types. Everyone said Nylander should have been the one to go but Wonderboy made a dumb promise and for what? He didn’t even get Nylander at a deal.

[Britflamesfan]

I am very surprised that people seem so excepting of this group of players and management. The team has consistently failed now since 2004 and for many reasons.

Since god alone knows we have only had 2 decent coaches, Sutter and Hartley and not surprisingly our best results came when they were in charge. Yet the team and this GM continually don’t make the effort to get a good coach. Ridicules to spend 80 odd million on players but not bother to get a top class coach.

Johnny is no doubt a good player but we are not winning a cup with him on the team. He simply disappears when it it gets tough and he has done that constantly, he talks the talk but won’t walk the walk. Monahan is the same but does not have the excuse of being small, as soft as soft can be and simply not good enough to be the number one centre.

Don’t know what’s happened to Lindholm but he was not good either.

I am not sold on our 9 million man either, he has yet to prove himself in the playoffs and in know way deserves 9 million. You can can pay 1 million for a ##### stirer if required. I strongly suspect he is going to disappoint fans when he become a UFA as I think he will be off to his dads old team.

We have to face up to the fact that this team is not going any where near the Stanly Cup as built. There are some nice pieces that can be built around but if this becomeS just another year of tinkering then after 24 years that’s me done with this team. Don’t settle for mediocrity which is this team personified.

This team needs a new GM, an experienced high quality coach and a clear out of soft players who are not willing to put their bodies on the line when the going gets tough.

[Itse]

People need to make up their mind about whether they want a top coach or move out top forwards.

If you do the latter, you're not likely to get the former. Top coaches ain't likely to come to rebuilding teams.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

can we trade Eric Francis?

I’d trade him for Francis the talking mule. Look it up, kids.

[flambers]

While listening to the links provided, nothing said was unexpected or a surprise.

However, any way he wants to spin it. This core has had several attempts at the playoffs with minimal to no success.

If he chooses to make very little changes, similar to last season and if the results are the same...

A change is required at that point....

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by fleury

I really don't like when GM's talk about the whole body of work when asking about what went wrong. There are 100 reasons why any team didn't win, but there are a select few main factors that should be addressed, some public, some private. Saying let's look at the full body of work is a little too much management speak.

The whole body of work this season is about the same level as the performance in the playoffs.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by Itse

People need to make up their mind about whether they want a top coach or move out top forwards.

If you do the latter, you're not likely to get the former. Top coaches ain't likely to come to rebuilding teams.

Gaudreau could easily be moved in a "hockey trade"

Hall may be signed to fill the top LW position

It's not only one or the other, Treliving has a lot of options this off season