Do the Flames Keep Treliving?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The 2017 draft was a big miss step in the "rebuild" IMO.

If they were going to trade high end picks at that draft, it should have been for Brayden Schenn, not Travis Hamonic. He also retained Michael Stone that off season as well.

Keep in mind, they drafted Fox in 2016. He's looking at the NHL depth chart and sees Hamilton, Hamonic and Stone all signed with term on the right side of the D. Plus Brodie who despite being a lefty always played his best on the right side with Gio. Maybe he would have never signed anyways, but that certainly didn't help.

The next off season was also a missed opportunity, as after making the big Hamilton trade, instead of going hard after a difference maker like ROR who was known to be available, they missed out yet again on a high end top 6 C and as a result filled out their top 6 by signing James Neal instead.

Of course, everyone knows that the team that got both those players went on to win the Cup after a slow start, a changing of the head coach, and also having Binnington step up and replace an always inconsistent Allen.

2019 off season saw them miss out on Kadri and also have to deal Neal for Lucic.

It'sbeen three disastrous off seasons in a row, and I am officially frightened about what might happen during this off season.

I have a hard time calling the 2018 offseason a disaster. The team went from 84pts to 107. Lindholm is an amazing core piece signed to an insanely good deal. Neal certainly leaves a stain on that summer that would t qualify it as a pure win.

Defensive depth had nothing to do with Fox signing or not. He was calling his shot and going to NY and would have stayed at Harvard to do so.

I am with you on that RoR trade. Flames would of had to move Bennett, 1st, 2nd and likely some other spare parts but that would have added a huge core piece.

I agree big time on the coach I was not a fan of the Peters hiring when AV and Sutter were out there


I am excited about the offseason but don’t get me wrong these moves are nerve racking no doubt.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

2018 was the off season Vigneault got turfed by the Rangers and the Flames fired Gulutzan and hired Peters. Now who knows if he would have come to Calgary or not, but boy is that ever frustrating in hind sight.

This offseason is very similar, some very very good coaches are available right now. Please don't blow this

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Well let's be honest here - not like St.Louis figured out goaltending either.

A guy they tried to loan to any team in the AHL and who was available for anybody to trade for ended up going on a crazy run that lasted 5 months.

But since then he's fallen back to earth and has been benched in this playoffs for Jake Freaking Allen.

So if anything I think all St.Louis shows us from a goaltending perspective is that it's crazy, and unpredictable, and really you have know idea what you're going to get from a goalie season to season, month to month.

Yeah, St. Louis effectively got lucky - but St. Louis is the outlier on the goalie front and the centre front. They acquired their top two centres, literally all the other recent cup champs drafted their goalies and their top centre.

Washington - Holtby and Grubauer, Backstrom and Kuznetsov
Pittsburgh - Fleury and Murray, Crosby and Malkin
Pittsburgh - Fleury and Murray, Crosby and Malkin
Chicago - Crawford, Toews
LA - Quick, Kopitar
Chicago - Crawford, Toews
LA - Quick, Kopitar
Boston - Rask, Bergeron
Chicago - Niemi (bad goalie on a hot run), Toews
Pittsburgh - Fleury, Crosby and Malkin

and so on and so on.

This team needs to draft centres and goalies. There's a pretty clear formula to winning a Stanley Cup and it starts with centre depth and high end goaltending, and excellent organizational depth.

This team literally has none of the things required

[EVERLAST]

All of us experts ....not one person talks about what really matters.
Does this teams GM have 100% backing to spend $$$ recklessly.
A Gio cap was at one time established.
We have a flat cap coming the next 2 years making the marketplace all the more interesting.

Why was Burke let go? I get his contract expired but is he just to out of touch? I think his role here behind the scenes was a benefit but yet he's gone.
I'd love to know how the hell another year passes and its acceptable the players failed. How is this possible?
We have had 3 at best good coaches in 4o years that got this team to perform.

DARRYL AND 2 BOBS.

I'm hearing the players liked Ward but he just isn't the answer.
Being he was a Bill Peters apprentice and good God was he annoying....had to be the smartest smart ass in the room all the time.

We don't block shots because we have the puck.....and it carried over to Ward .....same philosophy different dude....just using this as an example.

If these players continue being coach killers well never win another cup. Full stop.

Accountability. If IF IF Flames owners pull their heads out long enough and spend sign a new coach ....make damn sure the message is NO MORE mutinies .

This is on the players 100%

The hardest I've seen this team play in over a decade was for Hartley. Yet....someone had to bring in HIS guy and interview NO One else after firing him.

These players had to work hard to play in that meritocracy that I still to this day thought worked well.

Don't play hard? Don't play!!!
Wanna pout and spout ....your gone.

Show me Flames. Show me the next time the puck drops.
I don't Give a flying F who the coach is .....show me. Show me. Show me.

Man cheering for this team is hard .

[Erick Estrada]

Is this a "Should the Flames keep Treliving" poll or "Will the Flames keep Treliving" poll?

[Azure]

I don't think you keep Conroy in a management role for years and then not give him the job.

Obviously his take on things is important, but he seems like the type of the guy that would want to run with it.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

2018 was the off season Vigneault got turfed by the Rangers and the Flames fired Gulutzan and hired Peters. Now who knows if he would have come to Calgary or not, but boy is that ever frustrating in hind sight.

Vigneault was available and the coach I was hoping for way back when we were struggling with Gilbert. I even called in to the Mark Stephen show to advocate firing Gilbert for him. I recall that Mark didn't like the idea, but he was nice about it.

That Darryl Sutter guy ended up being a good hire, so I can't complain. Just a cool story, bro.

Gulutzan was a case of the Flames playing musical chairs with other teams and being left standing at the end. I personally don't think he was the guy Treliving wanted from day 1.

That's the problem when your team is seen as coaching carousel though. It's hard to convince good coaches to come over if you're firing them all the time.

Just look at what has become of coaches after going though the Flames over the past several years.

Jim Playfair - Rookie HC with only one season to prove himself. Had decent results. Some arrogant players allegedly drove him out out of town. Current status: Associate Coach in the NHL, never had another HC opportunity.

Mike Keenan - Decent regular season results. Fired after 2 seasons. Current status: Out of the NHL since then.

Brent Sutter - Was regarded as a top coach. Underwhelming results, but not terrible in the big picture. Ruined a lot of the goodwill he had in the NHL the way he left the Devils for the Flames. While I didn't like him as a coach, he took a big risk by leaving the Devils and hasn't had a whiff of the NHL after the Flames fired him. Current status: Out of the NHL since then.

Bob Hartley - His overall record wasn't great, but he had one really good season and the on-ice product was entertaining. He was also coaching during what was pretty much a rebuild at the time, so the results can't be looked at the same as previous coaches. Fired a year after winning the Jack Adams and the only Flames HC to make it passed the 1st round of the playoffs in the past 14 years. Current status: Out of the NHL since then.

Glen Gulutzan - Fired after one season. Assistant coach in the NHL. (not a rookie HC as previously mentioned).

Bill Peters - Not really a reflection of the organization, but still only 1.5 seasons behind the bench. Current status: Out of the NHL (albeit, extenuating circumstances).

Geoff Ward - Interim, but probably not coming back as HC. He will almost certainly get an NHL assistant coach position at the very least.

That is an average of less than 2 full seasons for any HC in Calgary since 2006 with all of them never getting another NHL HC job at this point. What proven coach wants to come to Calgary knowing this? It's a career killer.

[ResAlien]

Isn’t coaching carousel sort of the norm for the NHL though? There’s always a few outliers but most teams rip through coaches pretty quickly no?

[ComixZone]

Gully wasn't a rookie head coach.

He was the head coach in Dallas for two seasons and failed to make the playoffs in both seasons.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Isn’t coaching carousel sort of the norm for the NHL though? There’s always a few outliers but most teams rip through coaches pretty quickly no?

It's the norm for bad/mediocre teams. Among the top 18 longest serving active coaches, only Jeff Blashill of Detroit missed the play-in round.

[Brick]

It is time for a new GM.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

It's the norm for bad/mediocre teams. Among the top 18 longest serving active coaches, only Jeff Blashill of Detroit missed the play-in round.

well most of the league made the play in round

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Is this a "Should the Flames keep Treliving" poll or "Will the Flames keep Treliving" poll?

I interpreted it as "Will"

[Johnhitbox]

No


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1qqaaz]

Even though my initial post mostly outlined Treliving's flaws, I am undecided as to whether I think Treliving should be fired.

I don't have a lot of faith that Treliving will acquire an elite goalie, a proven coach, or a star center.

But there's a ton of value in continuity at the GM level. And though Treliving has made many mistakes, it's largely because there's 6 years of work to dissect. When GMs have long term continuity, it allows them to consider the long game rather than the short game. And that's the key to building a great team.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

At least once upon a time Jay Feaster had one priority right, despite fudging up how he went about it:

Targeting ROR.

Remember when we all thought what a bullet we dodged in not losing Monahan for ROR?

I 'member.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I interpreted it as "Will"

I thought "should". He has 3 more years on the contract - of course, they "will" - unless the team is sold or something of that sort.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Remember when we all thought what a bullet we dodged in not losing Monahan for ROR?

I 'member.

I think the problem was that he risked losing both.

[CSharp]

I'm just totally pissed with the situation on every year where Tre is pitting his goaltenders against each other and he's trying to find that #1 goalie and building the team from goalie out. As the results have shown, the goalie situation sucks every season because the team really don't know who the #1 goalie is and there's always doubt as to whether the goalie can do the job or not. The D looks good at times but seems totally deficient in the playoffs. Because the team is built outward, the offense is neglected and they soft without Tkachuk. The team is definitely small up front overall. I'm really on the fence with Tre. He's done some awesome trades and signings but he's like Sutter - always looking to build plug in a position they think needs bolstering but neglect or is unable to fix the overall issues. Sutter gets greedy with the D while Tre continues to look for a goalie. Frustrating as hell when the first line is soft was a hot knife in butter.

[Igottago]

The more I think about it, the more I think it's the right time for a new perspective on where to take this team. I think they should make the change.