[PGT] Flames 4, Sharks 3!

[Toonage]

I'm not. He sounded like a team apologist.

If a player has earned it, he's earned it. Not getting the spot because of someone else's contract wouldn't be a great reason to me. As an example.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I'm not. He sounded like a team apologist.

If a player has earned it, he's earned it. Not getting the spot because of someone else's contract wouldn't be a great reason to me. As an example.

To you, sure. But none of us is a NHL executive or coach. The reality of the situation is that these decisions get made on the basis of contracts, experience, and with a view to development all the time, and by every team. Simply put: It has never been as simple as "earning it." It never will be as simple as "earning it." Other factors will always be part of the conversation and decision.

[mrdonkey]

I would love to know the reasoning for keeping all of Lazar, Hathaway, and Peluso up ahead of Dube, who has easily and measurably played his way onto the team ahead of all three. It's not even the old "no sense keeping him in the press box" because there's a regular forward spot sitting right there for him.

I want to see the best 12 players start against Vancouver, and there is no argument to be made that a roster that includes any of those three bums is the best lineup possible. It sends a bad message.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

With Brodie playing on the right side, our RD depth is:

Brodie
Hamonic
Stone
Andersson
Prout

3 guys have to move out before Fox gets a sniff. With his size and lack of skating strength, that isn't happening any time soon.

I realize that but outside of Andersson we lack RHed dmen with an offensively dynamic skillset.

We traded 2 away in the deal and yes I know Fox still has to prove he's NHL calibre but it still hurts as we now have a dearth of RHed guys with offensive ability.

I'm still stoked to no end about the trade as Lindholm really filled a need and the sky is the limit for Hanifin.

If Andersson continues to develop it will most certainly sting less.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

Anyone missing Hamilton? *crickets* lol

Who?

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I would love to know the reasoning for keeping all of Lazar, Hathaway, and Peluso up ahead of Dube, who has easily and measurably played his way onto the team ahead of all three. It's not even the old "no sense keeping him in the press box" because there's a regular forward spot sitting right there for him.

I want to see the best 12 players start against Vancouver, and there is no argument to be made that a roster that includes any of those three bums is the best lineup possible. It sends a bad message.

See Textcritic's reply above you I suppose.

It doesn't make any sense to me that a player like Hathaway would be moved onto 4L with Frolik being moved to his off wing (natural side, but has been RW here) on 3L when a player that hasn't looked a bit out of place in the top 9 like Dube (or even Mangiapane) is sent away.

Then again I have yet to see Dube or Valimaki live so what do I know?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I would love to know the reasoning for keeping all of Lazar, Hathaway, and Peluso up ahead of Dube, who has easily and measurably played his way onto the team ahead of all three. It's not even the old "no sense keeping him in the press box" because there's a regular forward spot sitting right there for him.

I want to see the best 12 players start against Vancouver, and there is no argument to be made that a roster that includes any of those three bums is the best lineup possible. It sends a bad message.

Arguably Dube and Mangiapane are fighting for 1 roster spot on the 12 man every day roster.

Two of Lazar, Hathaway, and Peluso will be splitting 20 or so games between themsleves. Neither Dube or Mangiapane should be watching more hockey than they are playing this year. Dube especially should be put in a position where he will develop the best. If he doesn't outright make the 12 man roster, he should absolutely not be in a pressbox for 50 plus games.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Arguably Dube and Mangiapane are fighting for 1 roster spot on the 12 man every day roster.

Two of Lazar, Hathaway, and Peluso will be splitting 20 or so games between themsleves. Neither Dube or Mangiapane should be watching more hockey than they are playing this year. Dube especially should be put in a position where he will develop the best. If he doesn't outright make the 12 man roster, he should absolutely not be in a pressbox for 50 plus games.

Just so no one asks, no, Dube is not going to put one of the remaining 11 forwards in the press box for 50 games.

He’s one of the regular 12 or he’s in the AHL. 2 plugs need to travel with the team and wear suits for most games.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I'm not. He sounded like a team apologist.

If a player has earned it, he's earned it. Not getting the spot because of someone else's contract wouldn't be a great reason to me. As an example.

It would be a good reason if it was for asset management. Bottom line some players are easy to move to give you roster flexibility. I think Rittich and Gillies is the perfect example. If they are deemed equal then Gillies goes down because of the roster flexibility. No waivers, no risk.

Same story as last year, the opening day roster doesn't mean a whole lot. It is just the starting point. Sometimes it is worth it to take a little time so you aren't painted into a corner where 30 other GMs are circling waiting for you to make a mistake.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Robbob

It would be a good reason if it was for asset management. Bottom line some players are easy to move to give you roster flexibility. I think Rittich and Gillies is the perfect example. If they are deemed equal then Gillies goes down because of the roster flexibility. No waivers, no risk.

Same story as last year the opening day roster doesn't mean a whole lot. It is just the starting point. Sometimes it is worth it to take a little time so you aren't painted into a corner where 30 other GMs are circling waiting for you to make a mistake.

No one is circling waiting for Hathaway to hit the waiver wire.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I would love to know the reasoning for keeping all of Lazar, Hathaway, and Peluso up ahead of Dube, who has easily and measurably played his way onto the team ahead of all three. It's not even the old "no sense keeping him in the press box" because there's a regular forward spot sitting right there for him.

I want to see the best 12 players start against Vancouver, and there is no argument to be made that a roster that includes any of those three bums is the best lineup possible. It sends a bad message.

Has this happened?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I'm not. He sounded like a team apologist.

If a player has earned it, he's earned it. Not getting the spot because of someone else's contract wouldn't be a great reason to me. As an example.

And that's a fan response, which you're entitled to.

But Treliving has to measure a lot of variables. Merit gets a player into a conversation which is the first step, but then you have to weigh all the other variables and then make the best decision short, medium and long term.

I get excited too, don't get me wrong.

But I see how the world works when you waive Kulak and lose him, then a week later trade Stone to Ottawa only to have Andersson look iffy as the every day guy and a big injury to a left side defender (won't name one to jinx) means they have to elevate Valimaki to top four minutes.

Suddenly Treliving is Chiarelli.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Just so no one asks, no, Dube is not going to put one of the remaining 11 forwards in the press box for 50 games.

He’s one of the regular 12 or he’s in the AHL. 2 plugs need to travel with the team and wear suits for most games.

Just to add to that, injuries are not an if but a when in the NHL. Either Mangiapane or Dube being sent down does not mean that they wont have another chance to contribute to the Flames success this year.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Toonage

See Textcritic's reply above you I suppose.

It doesn't make any sense to me that a player like Hathaway would be moved onto 4L with Frolik being moved to his off wing (natural side, but has been RW here) on 3L when a player that hasn't looked a bit out of place in the top 9 like Dube (or even Mangiapane) is sent away.

Then again I have yet to see Dube or Valimaki live so what do I know?

I'm less worried about depth up front because they have lots of options. If they lose Lazar or Hathaway on waivers the impact isn't as great as if they got depleted on the blueline.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Toonage

No one is circling waiting for Hathaway to hit the waiver wire.

Sure, but I would bet that no GM is all that happy about exposing any players to the waiver wire. Even those that everyone else views as expendable.

[Sec218]

Hathaway has 5 career goals. Peluso has 4. Dube could have 10 by Christmas!

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And that's a fan response, which you're entitled to.

But Treliving has to measure a lot of variables. Merit gets a player into a conversation which is the first step, but then you have to weigh all the other variables and then make the best decision short, medium and long term.

I get excited too, don't get me wrong.

But I see how the world works when you waive Kulak and lose him, then a week later trade Stone to Ottawa only to have Andersson look iffy as the every day guy and a big injury to a left side defender (won't name one to jinx) means they have to elevate Valimaki to top four minutes.

Suddenly Treliving is Chiarelli.

I appreciate this reply. I guess from my perspective its frustrating to watch a kid (again I'll use Dube as an example) outplay 6 other players and not look the least bit out of place on the 3rd line possible be sent down only to see a player like Hathaway move into the startling lineup. Even if its something thats remedied a month into the season like Jankowski last year.

I get what everyone is saying. Most people are more rational than I am. And no, nothing has happened yet. Just hearing Lou talking like those moves have already been made just soured me a little.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Toonage

No one is circling waiting for Hathaway to hit the waiver wire.

It is all situational. I never thought in a millions years Forward Hamilton would be picked up. If it weren't for Kassian doing stupid things, Byron may have cleared. Vegas taking Malcolm Subban last year because the goalie coach thought highly of him or NJ grabbing Dea for reasons.

You just never know.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I appreciate this reply. I guess from my perspective its frustrating to watch a kid (again I'll use Dube as an example) outplay 6 other players and not look the least bit out of place on the 3rd line possible be sent down only to see a player like Hathaway move into the startling lineup. Even if its something thats remedied a month into the season like Jankowski last year.

I get what everyone is saying. Most people are more rational than I am. And no, nothing has happened yet. Just hearing Lou talking like those moves have already been made just soured me a little.

I get it. But I also tend to think because this happens with such frequency every year and in every NHL city it's something that is just not worth getting worked up about. I am personally much more invested right now in how the powerplay has performed. The Flames have to get that right this year, and so far it has looked bad.

[red sky]

The one untended consequences of adding all of this skill is the team appears to be over-passing or looking for the perfect play. They will have to sort out how they gain the zone but once they do, they will have to simplify their approach and... get pucks to the net.