Ontario Election thread

[tkflames]

I think this election reflects the conservative movement as a whole. Those in the upper middle class, let's call it arbitrarily an average household income of $150k plus are tired of paying substantial taxes when they face the same day to day, paycheque to paycheque challenges as many of those making less. This represents a substantial portion of the population and when grouped together with an angry rural group has consistently shown they can win elections. The higher income group doesn't really care what leader is elected as long as conservative fundamentals are maintained. The lower income rural population is drawn to the partisan rhetoric relating to their problems and as such the upper middle and above accept a leader they wouldn't otherwise elect. In terms of platforms, the upper middle class knows this is their minimum tax option and for the rural population there seems to be an educational shortcoming on what results in the most money in their pocket (or sometimes a few key conservative policies to target them).

I know there are a lot of generalizations in this post, but thisnsummarizes my observations over the last 20 years. I have voted for all three parties at different times based strictly on policy and local representation, but the partisan nature of elections now and lack of complete information will continue to dwindle the people voting like this.

I don't know if there is a good solution to this, but I wish there was a better non partisan transfer of information where I can put in basic parameters and it tells me not only what my tax bill will be, but also where my tax dollars are going in a concise manner.

[taco.vidal]

Another NDP government and the decline of Canada would accelerate.

[White Out 403]

Lol. The hate for the NDP on here is just incredible.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

Another NDP government and the decline of Canada would accelerate.

Wtf is this??

[FlamesAddiction]

Never in my wildest dreams did I ever imagine that a Ford would be the lesser of two evils... yet here we are.

And I am not totally opposed to the NDP, but the current Ontario version of the party under Horvath is just too far to the left. They make Doug Ford look closer to centre than he deserves to.

And Wynne has done enough. Nothing left in the tank for her or the provincial Liberals. They were in power too long, became corrupt and started buying votes. The typical cycle that inflicts all parties eventually when things come too easy for too long. There needs to be a change, but the other 2 options are cringe worthy in their own right.

What a time to be alive!

[SebC]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Those in the upper middle class, let's call it arbitrarily an average household income of $150k plus are tired of paying substantial taxes when they face the same day to day, paycheque to paycheque challenges as many of those making less.

Umm, they don't.

[GGG]

I think that people in the 75%-90% wage brackets believe that they struggle the same way those in the sub 50% wage bracket.

The amount of wasted money out there is staggering. It's not jus millennials eating Avacodo toast.

With a 150k per year income spilt between 2 earners and a family of four you can easily afford a house, 2 cars and a warm winter vacation. Or as people in Calgary like to call it living just above the poverty line

[DiracSpike]

People's families should be left out of politics, don't care how big of a skid that lady's kid is. It was gross with Harper and its gross now.

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

People's families should be left out of politics, don't care how big of a skid that lady's kid is. It was gross with Harper and its gross now.

Ms. Horwath brings her adult child to her political interviews and media appearances.
She's not emabarased of the child and no one is saying she should be.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by SebC

Umm, they don't.

I strongly agree with you on this, but this is the perception. If you have maxed out your mortgage, setup your life to require 2 cars and have $50 left in your account at the end of every month, the "perceived" strain is the same and this is how people vote. This is why the message of " I hear you, you are barely making it every month, cost of living is high because of government inefficiencies, we can put an extra $2k in your pocket by charging you fair taxes" resonates with this group.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

People's families should be left out of politics, don't care how big of a skid that lady's kid is. It was gross with Harper and its gross now.

That's not her kid. Her kid just turned 18, does very well in school, and isn't some loser. And even if he was it wouldn't matter. God I hate politics and the ugliness

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Lol. The hate for the NDP on here is just incredible.

Well it's no coincidence the more influence they have over this country the further it's in the dumps. Provinces are typically left in shambles after their leadership reign. Foreign investment in this country is as low as it's been since the 2008 stock market crash (with a lot of help from maybe one of the worst PM's in Canadian history). Meanwhile the US economy is on fire with a baboon running the show because that baboon at least realizes the value of a healthy economy. Canada is heading in the wrong direction and I fear the worst is yet to come. NDP governments don't make economical sense and people voting for this party are doing so without looking at the big picture. You don't need to elect a guy like Trump but you do need to elect people that realize that socialism and social justice and don't pay the bills.

[GGG]

The baboon is providing a Trillion dollar stimulus package in boom times. It's moronic short term policy. It's also what the NDP does, for example Albertas government spending has led to dramatic economic recovery.

You can't make a credible case that Trumps stimulus is any less reckless than Notleys stimulus.

I won't disagree with you on the way Trudeau went through the pipeline process and the chilling factor on investment but I don't think their is a credible case go be made that Prentice would have Alberta in a better position than Notley.

You just need to remember the Devine, Mulroney, Getty governments for PC mismanagement. Canadian provinces have rarely had good governance by any party.

[jammies]

The American economic solution is apparently to borrow trillions of dollars rather than raise taxes or cut services. So really, all three of the Ontario parties are emulating Trump, they just aren't as good at pretending to be responsible - and nobody cares about *actually* being responsible, that's for chumps who don't want to be elected.

[GirlySports]

The US is the US. Who is actually going to collect on their debt? Raising taxes is a campaign killer for both parties.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well it's no coincidence the more influence they have over this country the further it's in the dumps. Provinces are typically left in shambles after their leadership reign. Foreign investment in this country is as low as it's been since the 2008 stock market crash (with a lot of help from maybe one of the worst PM's in Canadian history). Meanwhile the US economy is on fire with a baboon running the show because that baboon at least realizes the value of a healthy economy. Canada is heading in the wrong direction and I fear the worst is yet to come. NDP governments don't make economical sense and people voting for this party are doing so without looking at the big picture. You don't need to elect a guy like Trump but you do need to elect people that realize that socialism and social justice and don't pay the bills.

This has to be laziest critique of liberal policies I've ever read. So lazy this is the best retort I can come up with.

[FLAME ENVY]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

This has to be laziest critique of liberal policies I've ever read. So lazy this is the best retort I can come up with.

Would you prefer a Doctoral Thesis? Is there something you don't understand?

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by FLAME ENVY

Would you prefer a Doctoral Thesis? Is there something you don't understand?

It's the sweeping general statements which are the kicker. Here, hows this?

Conservative policies in the US and Canada have tended to create massive deficits to further enrich the very wealthiest people while turning our infrastructure to 3rd world quality. Conservative governments like in Alberta burned thru boom oil periods like drunken sailors leaving the next generations left with a giant #### pile to clean up. All the while they will blame the NDP and liberals, who held power for a fraction of a % of the time.

Conservatives are hypocrites who spent money like liberals then lie about it on hockey forums and during elections.

[AltaGuy]

This NDP fear-mongering is hilarious: especially the disingenuous comparison between Trump and Notley. “... at least he gets it.” Yeah, Donald’s doing a great job down there. Oi.

From where I sit, Notley and Co have been the most responsible government in the last long while in Alberta. Pretty impressive results in my view.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

This NDP fear-mongering is hilarious: especially the disingenuous comparison between Trump and Notley. “... at least he gets it.” Yeah, Donald’s doing a great job down there. Oi.

From where I sit, Notley and Co have been the most responsible government in the last long while in Alberta. Pretty impressive results in my view.

70+BILLION in debt 2 years from now. 3 separate and distinct credit downgrades. All while instituting the single largest tax in Alberta history.

You and I have vastly different definitions of what being responsible means.