[PGT] Flames lose 2-0 to Stars

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The same few people keep saying how bad Stewart was...trying to justify their meltdowns earlier today

He wasn't great...certainly wasn't the worst forward and not why they lost the game. Personally I would play him in the bottom six moving forward.

What forward was great this game? no goals no points...a bunch of stupid penalties

If anyone melted down earlier you’d be included in the list. Do you feel vindicated in your opinion because stewart wasn’t a total unmitigated disaster?

Or was he outstanding and should continue to see top six minutes.

He was on waivers for a reason and Kovaz shot attempt stats show ho useless he was. You can admit it was a failure, we won’t judge you

[NewFan]

Typical flames game. Not great but not bad.

[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The same few people keep saying how bad Stewart was...trying to justify their meltdowns earlier today

He wasn't great...certainly wasn't the worst forward and not why they lost the game. Personally I would play him in the bottom six moving forward.

What forward was great this game? no goals no points...a bunch of stupid penalties

https://ibb.co/hJJKxc

Sorry, man, you're just wrong. He was an absolute anchor out there tonight.

[The Fonz]

I guess it's not just GG - apparently Oduya will be starting on Philly's top pairing on Thursday night.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Stewart or Bennett for that matter only get a shot on the first line due to injury

healthy lineup they are both bottom six

I disagree on Bennett, he's easily a top 6 forward and does not look out of place on the first line. he just needs some consistency in who and where he plays.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

If anyone melted down earlier you’d be included in the list. Do you feel vindicated in your opinion because stewart wasn’t a total unmitigated disaster?

Or was he outstanding and should continue to see top six minutes.

He was on waivers for a reason and Kovaz shot attempt stats show ho useless he was. You can admit it was a failure, we won’t judge you

What was my opinion? I said why the #### not...I stand by it

Bennett took his usual stupid penalty and cost the team a goal

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by dino7c

What was my opinion? I said why the #### not...I stand by it

Bennett took his usual stupid penalty and cost the team a goal

I get the frustration with Bennett’s penalties. But I’m gonna push back on this comment because there we six penalties taken. If the stars score on anyone else’s penalty instead of his is he somehow vindicated? 6 guys took penalties, are 5 of them excusable because Dallas didn’t score? Bennett doesn’t get the benefit of killing the penalty. And it was a high stick. It wasn’t like he was behind the play taking a hooking or a slash.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

I get the frustration with Bennett’s penalties. But I’m gonna push back on this comment because there we six penalties taken. If the stars score on anyone else’s penalty instead of his is he somehow vindicated? 6 guys took penalties, are 5 of them excusable because Dallas didn’t score? Bennett doesn’t get the benefit of killing the penalty. And it was a high stick. It wasn’t like he was behind the play taking a hooking or a slash.

Its an offensive zone penalty from the guy who likely leads the league in offensive zone penalties.

I never said he was the only one who took a penalty...fact is it cost them

Anyway, not a hater...hope he plays well tomorrow and scores four goals again.

[Ashasx]

Stewart was absolutely awful tonight.

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If you blame this game on Stu you are a ####ing moron

Originally Posted by dino7c

The same few people keep saying how bad Stewart was...trying to justify their meltdowns earlier today

He wasn't great...certainly wasn't the worst forward and not why they lost the game. Personally I would play him in the bottom six moving forward.

What forward was great this game? no goals no points...a bunch of stupid penalties

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

If anyone melted down earlier you’d be included in the list. Do you feel vindicated in your opinion because stewart wasn’t a total unmitigated disaster?

Or was he outstanding and should continue to see top six minutes.

He was on waivers for a reason and Kovaz shot attempt stats show ho useless he was. You can admit it was a failure, we won’t judge you

Again, why the need to be so hostile towards different opinions? Why can't we have a PGT where people can disagree without jumping to this kind of BS?

I've stated my opinions and I've tried to provide support for them. You're welcome to have different opinions. It's not a personal attack to challenge someone's opinion.

I'll re-state my thoughts from other threads:

• Bennett has fit in nicely on the top line against Arizona and Colorado
• Our top line has done the bulk of our scoring this season and we rely heavily on them to produce
• Chris Stewart hasn't been great this year in Minnesota
• I think it's unlikely Stewart will perform as well as Bennett has on the top line
• I don't think we can afford to have our top line struggle, even for a short period of time

Then, in the game thread and PGT:

• Our first line has struggled in the first 2 periods with Stewart. We've scored 0 goals. I think the first line's struggles have played a significant part in our lack of offence
• Bennett got put back on the first line, and they had significantly more offensive zone time and scoring chances in the third period
• I think, as a result, it's logical to conclude that Stewart had a negative impact on our first line, and it hurt our chances to win the game tonight

In my opinion, it was a poor choice to put Stewart on the top line, and the way the game played out supported that. There were other factors: PP struggling, some bad penalties, a goal Gillies would like to have back. But the way I see it, in-game mistakes are going to happen. However, we aren't a good enough team to tack on additional mistakes that were totally avoidable, and I think that putting Stewart on line 1 was a predictably bad decision.

Again, feel free to disagree. Maybe you think Stewart was mis-used in Minnesota and he'd be a better fit in our system. Maybe you think Bennett hasn't been good on the top line. I don't know. But those at least advance the discussion and lead somewhere interesting. Saying "anyone who disagrees with me is a moron" is pretty useless.

[Samonadreau]

Stewart shouldn't have started on the top line. Oh well, lesson learned. If he really is as bad defensively as his stats and the eye test would say then I can see why he was put on waivers. Whatever, depth for the playoff run.

[Otto-matic]

Win tomorrow and you keep pace with SJ/LA.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

Again, why the need to be so hostile towards different opinions? Why can't we have a PGT where people can disagree without jumping to this kind of BS?

I've stated my opinions and I've tried to provide support for them. You're welcome to have different opinions. It's not a personal attack to challenge someone's opinion.

I'll re-state my thoughts from other threads:

• Bennett has fit in nicely on the top line against Arizona and Colorado
• Our top line has done the bulk of our scoring this season and we rely heavily on them to produce
• Chris Stewart hasn't been great this year in Minnesota
• I think it's unlikely Stewart will perform as well as Bennett has on the top line
• I don't think we can afford to have our top line struggle, even for a short period of time

Then, in the game thread and PGT:

• Our first line has struggled in the first 2 periods with Stewart. We've scored 0 goals. I think the first line's struggles have played a significant part in our lack of offence
• Bennett got put back on the first line, and they had significantly more offensive zone time and scoring chances in the third period
• I think, as a result, it's logical to conclude that Stewart had a negative impact on our first line, and it hurt our chances to win the game tonight

In my opinion, it was a poor choice to put Stewart on the top line, and the way the game played out supported that. There were other factors: PP struggling, some bad penalties, a goal Gillies would like to have back. But the way I see it, in-game mistakes are going to happen. However, we aren't a good enough team to tack on additional mistakes that were totally avoidable, and I think that putting Stewart on line 1 was a predictably bad decision.

Again, feel free to disagree. Maybe you think Stewart was mis-used in Minnesota and he'd be a better fit in our system. Maybe you think Bennett hasn't been good on the top line. I don't know. But those at least advance the discussion and lead somewhere interesting. Saying "anyone who disagrees with me is a moron" is pretty useless.

I said anyone who thinks that is why we lost the game is a moron...

Flames dominated the game, other than in goal

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by theinfinitejar

https://imgur.com/MDMJG6l

So, not a great debut...

imgur not helping me here.

Wtf why did you link that?

[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Wtf why did you link that?

Are you seeing something different than me?

[Samonadreau]

^ first time I opened it was a weird pizza thing. Now it's a dog.

[The Boy Wonder]

I got chris Stewart’s stat line and a picture of a rocket powered chainsaw launcher

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't understand why people are still harping on Stewart on the top line. It won't be his last try up there, not as long as Ferland remains out.

The issue is secondary scoring. That's what is absolutely killing this team this year.

So what do you do? Sure, you can load up the first line and hope for the best, but there are games when the other team just manages to completely neutralize that top line, and you make it easier for them to do it when there isn't much of a threat anywhere else in the lineup.

I expect Bennett to get rotated onto that line often, but I also expect him to line up against Jankowski as well.

However, one look at Bennett playing on that top line confirms my belief that he is a game changer and just needs skilled players that play at pace with him. He made a tonne of nice set-ups in tight and quick, and he had that drive where he split the D, got the puck knocked away at the last second, but was still tenacious enough to get the puck himself, make a few more moves, and still get a shot off. That's damn elite-level skill there.

He needs a skilled player that plays with pace to his game. Unfortunately, outside of Gaudreau, there isn't anyone in the organization. Maybe if things go right, Phillips can join that line, though I remain very skeptical of him (and that wouldn't come for a few seasons at least).

Flames need to find someone that can play at that speed and who has a good shot and can make plays in-tight as well. Watch Bennett take-off.

That's why (or partly why) Gulutzan tried out Stewart on the top line. He has been productive in his career when put in a situation to produce, but is also streaky. Of course you try him out and see if he can produce at a decent enough rate to fill that position, and then try Ferland with Bennett and Jankowski in the hopes that another line can solidify.

It didn't work out tonight, but it was also his first game. I am sure he will get a few shifts in a row in upcoming games, and if it doesn't pan out, then he goes down the lineup until something works (and if nothing works, he sits - simple as that). Brouwer kept getting tried on the top line for a while too until it didn't work.

I do expect some major off-season moves. Darryl Sutter was bang-on when he called the Backlund line "the best 3rd line in the league". The problem is that the Flames don't have a second line, and it is because Poirier, Shinkaruk, Klimchuk, etc., have not panned out yet (or never will).

This off-season should see Treliving make a splash - he simply has to move a defencemen or some defensive prospects for a legitimate scoring RW, and then decide what to do with the 4th line. Shore and Lazar may be fine. Brouwer may or may not be back. Will be interesting to see what Treliving does with it.

However, I do agree with some of the posters who have been (overly) critical of Gulutzan, but maybe not exactly with their points. What I agree with is that regardless of how good the advanced metrics from this team rank in the league, this is a results-based business. Great coaches with proven track-records, and who have won Stanley Cups with an organization, are canned for a team under-performing.

This team throughout two seasons has shown a lot of inconsistency and now find themselves in a dogfight to make the playoffs in what is one of the weaker divisions. At the end of the season, if the results are unacceptable, I don't see how Gulutzan survives regardless of how good the underlying metrics show.

Hartley had poor underlying metrics and made it to round 2 of the playoffs and won the Jack Adams - the Flames had no choice but to re-sign him (though it seemed rather grudgingly by Treliving, who had his own ideas of what kind of a coach/team he wanted to implement, which is 100% fair). However, the reverse will also hold true - regardless of the underlying metrics, if a coach can't get a team into the playoffs after said team spends a lot of assets to do so, and doesn't meet the expectations as outlined at the start of the season, then I do expect that coach to be replaced as well. Will be interesting to see how the rest of the season - the toughest grind of it - shapes up.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

A lot of coaches now go with pairs and then a complimentary player who otherwise wouldn't be playing that high up in the line up.
It is hardly unheard of.

Josh bailey,Patrick Maroon and Paul byron just to list the 3 off the top of my head would agree.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by theinfinitejar

Are you seeing something different than me?

Ahh yes much different... its a story of how a police dog lost all its teeth while apprehending a suspect.