Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

yeah, but why would buffalo?

Aren't they pretty comparable points wise? Reinhart has just been as disappointing in Buffalo as Bennett has been in Calgary.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Thanks Bingo

So I read that as saying Bennett and Brouwer shouldn't be on the same line. And that we shouldn't be judging Bennett when his stats are approximately 50%/33 better when Brouwer isn't his winger.

And given that Brouwer's stats drop this year with Bennett, the question goes back to coaching and questionable usage.

I don't want this to churn into another Gulutzan debate, but who else does he have?

He was happy with Brouwer on the fourth line even to the point of putting Jagr down there when he got healthy to keep Hathaway with Jankowski and Bennett.

But then the third line went ice cold around the time that Brouwer showed some life playing with Backlund and with that the progression was somewhat obvious.

The Flames are a forward short for what could be a complete top nine, but even with that I'm not sure they're there given Jankowski and Bennett's slide in the last month.

He has to play the cards he's dealt.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Aren't they pretty comparable points wise? Reinhart has just been as disappointing in Buffalo as Bennett has been in Calgary.

No, Reinhart has definitely outplayed him in the points department, although hes still a disappointment overall. I dont know enough about the rest of his game but cant see it being any worse than Bennetts. Buffalo would not do that deal straight across.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

No, Reinhart has definitely outplayed him in the points department, although hes still a disappointment overall. I dont know enough about the rest of his game but cant see it being any worse than Bennetts. Buffalo would not do that deal straight across.

Reinhart was also promptly transitioned to wing, and never played a full year at centre from what I understand.

Reinhart also plays on PP1 with Eichel...so...yeah, circumstance.

Originally Posted by Bingo

He has to play the cards he's dealt.

Agreed, and it really does show the risk GM's take when going into free agency. Can you imagine if we had snagged Eric Staal instead of Brouwer on July 1st, 2016? Or David Perron, David Backes, or Michael Grabner? It would have changed the team for the better, significantly so.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Reinhart was also promptly transitioned to wing, and never played a full year at centre from what I understand.

Reinhart also plays on PP1 with Eichel...so...yeah, circumstance.




Agreed, and it really does show the risk GM's take when going into free agency. Can you imagine if we had snagged Eric Staal instead of Brouwer on July 1st, 2016? Or David Perron, David Backes, or Michael Grabner? It would have changed the team for the better, significantly so.

Have you seen bennett on the power play?

There's a reason he plays less than minute per game there, and it's not because of a conspiracy to keep him from producing.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Have you seen bennett on the power play?

There's a reason he plays less than minute per game there, and it's not because of a conspiracy to keep him from producing.

Everyone on the PP is struggling, and our 2nd unit has always been very very weakly staffed - which is how it usually is. The 1st unit is where it's at.

Have you seen Troy Brouwer on the PP? As far as playing the cards you're dealt is concerned, Bennett > Brouwer, at all times.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't want this to churn into another Gulutzan debate, but who else does he have?

He was happy with Brouwer on the fourth line even to the point of putting Jagr down there when he got healthy to keep Hathaway with Jankowski and Bennett.

But then the third line went ice cold around the time that Brouwer showed some life playing with Backlund and with that the progression was somewhat obvious.

The Flames are a forward short for what could be a complete top nine, but even with that I'm not sure they're there given Jankowski and Bennett's slide in the last month.

He has to play the cards he's dealt.

Right, and that Brouwer card needs to be dealt to somebody else. This team would be better without him. So many other players advanced stats are worse when playing with Brouwer too.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Reinhart was also promptly transitioned to wing, and never played a full year at centre from what I understand.

Reinhart also plays on PP1 with Eichel...so...yeah, circumstance.

It sure seems you don’t think players need to earn their spot in the lineup. Reinhart has been a disappointment but not to the degree Bennett has been. Seems pretty cut and dry up to this point.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Buff

Right, and that Brouwer card needs to be dealt to somebody else. This team would be better without him. So many other players advanced stats are worse when playing with Brouwer too.

I would guess Gulutzan would agree with you.

But how likely is that?

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Have you seen bennett on the power play?

There's a reason he plays less than minute per game there, and it's not because of a conspiracy to keep him from producing.

When Gaudreau isn't on the ice (using Gaudreau as a proxy for "1st PP Unit"), using goals for and scoring chances for (per 60), Bennett ranks ahead or equal to the following players:

Mikael Backlund
Matthew Tkachuk
Mark Janowski
Michael Frolik
Mark Giordano
Dougie Hamilton
TJ Brodie

And yet we've recently replaced him on the 2nd unit with Frolik, who ranks behind Matt Stajan and Curtis Lazar in 5v4 scoring change generation and who hasn't been on the ice for a PP goal this season. I'm not calling it a conspiracy, but Bennett has outplayed his competition on that 2nd PP unit.

[ResAlien]

I don’t believe any of us want Bennett to fail but reading through this thread it seems to show that he really doesn’t pass the eye test or the stats test. The hope test and the blame his linemates test seem to be the only two he passes.

If we remove ourselves from considering his draft position he’s ok. If he was a third round pick and was producing as he is we’d be happy with that. It’s just so hard to recocile his total lack of production with his status as the highest pick this team has ever had.

[Bingo]

Some obscure Bennett stats ...

Shots - 7th on team
Shooting percentage - 10th
Rush Attempts - 2nd (Backlund 1, ahead of Gaudreau)
Rebounds created - 1st (Frolik and Giordano)
Minor Penalties - 2nd (Hamilton 1st)
Penalties Drawn - 3rd (Tkachuk and Gaudreau ahead)
Penalties Differential - 8th (flat)
Giveways - 7th with only 11, Gaudreau has 46
Takeaways - 2nd to Backlund
Give/Take Diff - 1st with +23 (Backlund +20)
Face Offs - 54%

The guy is doing lots of little things right. Stay the course

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

When Gaudreau isn't on the ice (using Gaudreau as a proxy for "1st PP Unit"), using goals for and scoring chances for (per 60), Bennett ranks ahead or equal to the following players:

Mikael Backlund
Matthew Tkachuk
Mark Janowski
Michael Frolik
Mark Giordano
Dougie Hamilton
TJ Brodie

And yet we've recently replaced him on the 2nd unit with Frolik, who ranks behind Matt Stajan and Curtis Lazar in 5v4 scoring change generation and who hasn't been on the ice for a PP goal this season. I'm not calling it a conspiracy, but Bennett has outplayed his competition on that 2nd PP unit.

Yes but again, almost all of that stat is attributed to 1 month. He’s back off/on the PP now because hes reverted back to being ice cold and invisible. His problem is consistency, plain and simple, has been since his first season. Until he can put up a consistent effort then you will see him bounce on and off the power play and see his ice time go up and down.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

No, Reinhart has definitely outplayed him in the points department, although hes still a disappointment overall. I dont know enough about the rest of his game but cant see it being any worse than Bennetts. Buffalo would not do that deal straight across.

I was just looking at this season's points. Reinhart has a whooping 23 points to Bennett's 18, and a pristine -15 to Bennett's -7. Over the course of their careers, I guess Reinhart does have 113 points to Bennett's 81. So that tells me Reinhart is regressing more, no?

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I was just looking at this season's points. Reinhart has a whooping 23 points to Bennett's 18, and a pristine -15 to Bennett's -7. Over the course of their careers, I guess Reinhart does have 113 points to Bennett's 81. So that tells me Reinhart is regressing more, no?

Neither is very good at this point. Still cant see Buffalo doing that deal straight up. And plus/minus is heavily dependent on team situation, I’d say given the difference in the teams that Sam’s is actually a worse reflection than Reinhart (but I generally think plus minus is an awful stat anyway).

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Not sure how realistic this is, but is it possible to work on the speed of his release at this stage? His wrist shot is such a long windup that he easily gets his shots deflected up and into the netting. It kills the shift quite often.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Some obscure Bennett stats ...

Shots - 7th on team
Shooting percentage - 10th
Rush Attempts - 2nd (Backlund 1, ahead of Gaudreau)
Rebounds created - 1st (Frolik and Giordano)
Minor Penalties - 2nd (Hamilton 1st)
Penalties Drawn - 3rd (Tkachuk and Gaudreau ahead)
Penalties Differential - 8th (flat)
Giveways - 7th with only 11, Gaudreau has 46
Takeaways - 2nd to Backlund
Give/Take Diff - 1st with +23 (Backlund +20)
Face Offs - 54%

The guy is doing lots of little things right. Stay the course

Thank you.... this really supports my opinion that Bennett is a consistent performer but not getting to play with the top 4 forwards on this team hurts his points which is why everyone thinks he is a bust. If the Flames won’t move him up the lineup they should move him somewhere else and address their weaker spots

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by rhino

Thank you.... this really supports my opinion that Bennett is a consistent performer but not getting to play with the top 4 forwards on this team hurts his points which is why everyone thinks he is a bust. If the Flames won’t move him up the lineup they should move him somewhere else and address their weaker spots

I think the best course forward is to acquire a good player and put him in the RW of Bennett and Jankowski. Really fix that 3rd line. Stop actively hurting them with Brouwer.

[Roof-Daddy]

What about something like Bennett for Bjugstad?

Bjugstad is older, more expensive, has struggled since signing his bigger contract and could use a change of scenery. He's also a big body and a right shot with some ability to play center, things the Flames could use.

Bennett is younger cheaper, and may also benefit from a change of scenery. He's 4 years younger than Bjugstad and has more potential for future growth if he can find his footing in a new environment with less pressure.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Some obscure Bennett stats ...

Shots - 7th on team
Shooting percentage - 10th
Rush Attempts - 2nd (Backlund 1, ahead of Gaudreau)
Rebounds created - 1st (Frolik and Giordano)
Minor Penalties - 2nd (Hamilton 1st)
Penalties Drawn - 3rd (Tkachuk and Gaudreau ahead)
Penalties Differential - 8th (flat)
Giveways - 7th with only 11, Gaudreau has 46
Takeaways - 2nd to Backlund
Give/Take Diff - 1st with +23 (Backlund +20)
Face Offs - 54%

The guy is doing lots of little things right. Stay the course

This needs to be read again by some people.