Cory Sarich - Bob Hartley "was the worst coach I ever had"

[DeluxeMoustache]

Half in the bag? From the round of golf the day before?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Half in the bag? From the round of golf the day before?

Then why was it difficult for Sarich to come in and play? Why is a pro athlete not ready to go, even if the coach 'surprises' him by putting it in.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by New Era

Not that I think Hartley was a good coach, but I wonder if he would say Sarich was the worst defenseman he ever had?

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Then why was it difficult for Sarich to come in and play? Why is a pro athlete not ready to go, even if the coach 'surprises' him by putting it in.

This and this are what irk me about the Sarich thing. Whatever Hartley's issues were with individual players, he certainly seemed to keep it between them. I never remember anything but positivity from Bob when speaking in the media about players.

And yeah... so Sarich hadn't played in 11 games and is all of a sudden thrown in. Did he not want to play? Emblematic of the left-over country club culture from the latter Iggy years. There's a kid dying on the farm to play a hockey game and you don't want to because you golfed and had a couple beers the day before? F*** off.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

When you have two hall of fame centers (Sakic and Forsberg), two hall of fame defensemen (Blake and Bourque), a hall of fame goaltender (Roy), as well as really good depth pieces (Foote, Drury, Tanguay, Hejduk) all of whom are pulling for an inspirational story of getting Ray Bourque a cup.

Then you still have to win 16 NHL playoff games.

[killer_carlson]

My take on Hartley is that he devised a system to play to the strengths of the players he was provided by the GM. He was limited by the talent on the roster at times. Never was this more evident than in his last season when it came to goaltending.

None of the goalies that Hartley was provided with in the 2015/2016 season ever played another game in the NHL after that season. None.

I did some number crunching to get a sense of goaltending in 2015/16 vs this season to get a rough sense of what it would be like in the standings.


I weighted each goalie's save percentage and got an average for the year.

2015/16 average .897
2017/18 average .913

that is a difference of 0.016.

If you take an average of 30 shots per game, that is the difference in an extra goal every other game. (note, our average shot against in 2015/16 was 29. This year it's 32, so 30 is a reasonable threshold)

If we look to our record this year, we have:
4 one goal wins in October, incl 1 OT Win, 1 Shootout Win
4 one goal wins in November, incl 2 OT, 1 Shootout Win, 1 Shootout loss
2 one goal wins in December, incl 2 OT, 3 Shootout Loss
3 one goal wins in January, with 1 OT win, 1 SO loss

13 one goal wins. Of those 8 went into overtime/shootout.

If we had the same statistical goaltending as we did in 2015/2016 approximately half of those OT/Shootout games would have seen the Flames giving up an extra goal in regulation, thereby not getting into OT. Therefore, take the 8 wins that went into extra time and reduce that to 4 wins.


In this very rough, very quick analysis, the outcome I see is that had GG 2017/18 received the same level of goaltending as Hartley did in 2015/2016, the Flames would have at least 8 less points in the standings.

That would put us tied with Edmonton.

So as much as I like Sarich for the warrior he was on the ice, I think his story is about a coach pushing a complacent veteran to set an example for the young guys. I don't think it's fair to use Sarich's story to say Hartley is a terrible coach.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I also would have liked more context around the comment that D should not reverse.

Breaking Sutter’s safe boring system and playing an uptempo game with a quick transition, maybe he implemented some basic rules to help reinforce the change in behaviour.

Part of blowing it up and moving forward with youth and speed involved leaving guys like Sarich on the outside looking in and he was grumpy about it. No big deal.

[Radio]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Then why was it difficult for Sarich to come in and play? Why is a pro athlete not ready to go, even if the coach 'surprises' him by putting it in.

Didn't know that was part of being a pro athlete, being "Ready to go", wink wink.

I have never played ice hockey, but from what I understand practicing is not the same as playing. We're always hearing about players not being in "game shape" when they miss games for whatever reason. I would imagine sitting 11 games would make any player fall out of "game shape" and/or get rusty and/or lose a step on players playing consistently.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

In this very rough, very quick analysis, the outcome I see is that had GG 2017/18 received the same level of goaltending as Hartley did in 2015/2016, the Flames would have at least 8 less points in the standings.

Well, this is a season in which many of us, at one point, wanted him fired.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by MattyC

And yeah... so Sarich hadn't played in 11 games and is all of a sudden thrown in. Did he not want to play? Emblematic of the left-over country club culture from the latter Iggy years. There's a kid dying on the farm to play a hockey game and you don't want to because you golfed and had a couple beers the day before? F*** off.

My take away from that story was different.

He was put in for 1 game, because Hartley wanted to show him who had the power, not because he wanted him to make a difference. Sarich mentioned he was put back up in the press box after that one game. Did he suck during that one game, maybe, but I suspect that Hartley had no plan to keep him in the line up. Sarich also mentioned that it was a last minute decision, if Hartley as thinking of playing him for reasons other than a dick measuring contest he should have given Sarich notice.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

My take away from that story was different.

He was put in for 1 game, because Hartley wanted to show him who had the power, not because he wanted him to make a difference. Sarich mentioned he was put back up in the press box after that one game. Did he suck during that one game, maybe, but I suspect that Hartley had no plan to keep him in the line up. Sarich also mentioned that it was a last minute decision, if Hartley as thinking of playing him for reasons other than a dick measuring contest he should have given Sarich notice.

shouldn't matter If it was last minute notice or not, you're a professional athlete on a team, your job is to be ready and in game shape at any given moment. whether or not Hartley was calling him out its still his job to be ready to play for his TEAM. Sounds like Sarich was getting too comfortable sitting eating popcorn.

[bubbsy]

sorry to possibly de-rail, but i thought putting this here made sense, given some of the comments made about Hartley's handling of players, and their lifestyles.

Tortorella was asked about his players when visiting Vegas... His response seemed pretty cool to me:
(full article: https://www.bardown.com/this-quote-a...torts-1.974859)

"Torts on #CBJ players having fun in Vegas “I want them to go out. Playing guilty is a big part of being a really good player in the [NHL]. We don’t do that anymore. Heaven forbid! We have agents, and their whole entourage making sure u drink that carrot juice, and all this stuff""

More interesting quotes in the article (they're posted as an image, so can't copy/paste more here...

[Coach]

I think young players like coaches like Tortorella and Hartley because they're kind of this idealistic version of an old-school coach they thought of as kids, and they find it fun and entertaining vs berating and crabby. But I think that's why they run out of time fairly quickly.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by trublmaker

shouldn't matter If it was last minute notice or not, you're a professional athlete on a team, your job is to be ready and in game shape at any given moment. whether or not Hartley was calling him out its still his job to be ready to play for his TEAM. Sounds like Sarich was getting too comfortable sitting eating popcorn.

Your job is to be ready in case of injury, but aside from that, the norm is for coaches to let players know they are going to be in as a matter of courtesy and so that they can play at their best.

Sarich didn't tell the story as it being detrimental to him, just that Hartley was being a dick and doing a power move. Which apparently he could be, depending on whether he liked you or not.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by trublmaker

shouldn't matter If it was last minute notice or not, you're a professional athlete on a team, your job is to be ready and in game shape at any given moment. whether or not Hartley was calling him out its still his job to be ready to play for his TEAM. Sounds like Sarich was getting too comfortable sitting eating popcorn.

Nope to me sounded to me like he wanted some professional courtesy and communication instead of passive aggressive head games.


Also, totally OT, but why did you capitalize every letter in team?

[Erick Estrada]

At the end of the day there's a reason the guy has had one NHL head coaching gig in the last decade and currently is out of the league with little interest from teams. Good coaches always get opportunities and barring the Canadiens hiring him I doubt he ever coaches in the NHL again.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Nope to me sounded to me like he wanted some professional courtesy and communication instead of passive aggressive head games.


Also, totally OT, but why did you capitalize every letter in team?

Because he doesn't play for himself, his teammates also depend on him to be ready when he is called on.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

At the end of the day there's a reason the guy has had one NHL head coaching gig in the last decade and currently is out of the league with little interest from teams. Good coaches always get opportunities and barring the Canadiens hiring him I doubt he ever coaches in the NHL again.

if Hartley isn't Feaster's son's godfather, does he even get a crack at an NHL gig at all after the Thrashers fired him in 2007? he had already been out of the league for 5 years by the time he got here.