Season Ticket Renewals

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Question for those STH holders who keep referencing "breaking even". I'm assuming you mean simply covering your costs on the games you can't attend when you sell them, or do you mean covering the cost of your entire Season Ticket Costs by being able to sell the games you don't go to over the STH cost?

[Lord Carnage]

We mean covering costs of games we can't attend.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

We mean covering costs of games we can't attend.

Makes sense!

That's obviously much more reasonable of an expectation, and I can completely understand why many people would rely on that to justify / afford their tickets, makes total sense.

The only thing I'd say is I'm getting an undertone of the Flames are clearly pricing too high and making a mistake as people observe those opportunities drying up, and I don't think that's actually the case. From a Flames perspective, when the market is vibrant enough that a STH holder can easily break even on the games they don't attend, that likely means that the Flames have undersold their product at the start of the year, because it indicates the market demand is bigger than their supply, given there are line ups of people willing to purchase off market tickets. That's even extrapolated further if STH are able to sell un-used games at a profit.

The goal of any business would be to intersect their demand and supply lines, that's how one maximizes profit (basically, obviously more complicated than that). Calgary is a hockey market, no disputing, and is a big enough city to support the team. So the only two factors really that are going to influence the demand of tickets are Successful team, and local economy going well. Currently the local economy isn't great, and the team isn't a dud, but hardly a success yet. Given that's the case, it's a given that the Flames tickets are going to be harder to move, and is likely an indication that the Flames have potentially slightly over priced their tickets (unless they are actually able to fill them with waiting list clients).

However, it's close to impossible for the Flames to predict demand before the start of a season, because of the wild card that is "team success". True they can know the local economic situation, but they are "betting" on how the team will do in the upcoming year on driving demand. End of the day, for STH what it likely means is in years where the economy and the team is doing well, we probably underpay for tickets based on a supply and demand model. In years where the fate of the team is less sure, and the economy is bad, we likely overpay. In the long run, it likely evens out, and is the only way to guarantee tickets when you might really want them.

All that said, totally understand that peoples individual situations might only allow them to afford tickets when team is good and economy is good because it allows for the money back on sold games.....which is tough to swallow for hard core fans when that situation doesn't present it's self

[Mista_Incognito]

Originally Posted by jtfrogger

I got a call from the Flames today because I did not submit my renewal. It was a very short call. I didn't get an offer for a game pack or half season. It seemed like the rep was trying to get me off the phone as soon as possible. He did ask me why I wasn't renewing, and I my answer was short. It was basically, "There are a number of factors. Some are personal and along with the cost going up and the value going down it just didn't make sense to renew." He didn't even ask me why I thought the value was going down.

It just seemed like a very abrupt way end to a relationship where they got about $200k from me over time.

I got the same treatment last season when I gave up my tickets. The poor customer service was not isolated to my cancellation, it seemed to consistently get worse over the 12-year span I was financially committed to the team yet prices continued to increase. I am sad to say that the treatment I got from the Flames ticket office has played a big part in me losing interest in the NHL and Flames.

When I initially made the decision to cancel my season tickets it was hard but losing the emotional attachment I had to the Flames since childhood has been one of the best things for my personal development. Committing my time to other things has changed my life for the positive. I will always have a soft spot for the Flames but after all the debacles from the ticket office and declining service over the years have no regrets canceling. It's actually been quite liberating.

[robaur]

I was fully decided on not renewing my tickets but my partner said to just pull the trigger and renew. Hopefully we get rewarded during seat relocation with some better seats because that's one of the reasons we renewed. If that doesn't happen, it will be really disappointing. I fully expect the saddledome to have plenty of empty seats next season.....for sure the 1st half atleast and then depending on how the team is doing....that will dictate attendance for the 2nd half.

my personal opinion on the way the flames dealt with this is that they are a business that is poorly run. they are out of touch with their customer base and display the "couldnt care less" attitude. its extremely disturbing. TBH....I really have my doubts whether this team has the talent to be a cup contender over the next 5 years because in the immediate short term....i dont see hockey ops having many options at their disposal to take this team to the next level. We have good players but other teams that compete for the cup every year just have even better pieces. We're not just a goaltender away from competing for the cup.

[Flamefan1]

Originally Posted by robaur

I was fully decided on not renewing my tickets but my partner said to just pull the trigger and renew. Hopefully we get rewarded during seat relocation with some better seats because that's one of the reasons we renewed. If that doesn't happen, it will be really disappointing. I fully expect the saddledome to have plenty of empty seats next season.....for sure the 1st half atleast and then depending on how the team is doing....that will dictate attendance for the 2nd half.

my personal opinion on the way the flames dealt with this is that they are a business that is poorly run. they are out of touch with their customer base and display the "couldnt care less" attitude. its extremely disturbing. TBH....I really have my doubts whether this team has the talent to be a cup contender over the next 5 years because in the immediate short term....i dont see hockey ops having many options at their disposal to take this team to the next level. We have good players but other teams that compete for the cup every year just have even better pieces. We're not just a goaltender away from competing for the cup.

I have been a Flames season ticket holder and did not have to even think about renewing my tickets. I think the Flames top 3 lines will rival any team in the league and I have faith Brad will look after the goaltending. I believe that there still is a backlog of fans on the list for season tickets although Perhaps that is no longer the case this. I for one am very excited to enjoy our Flames team this season. We will have Jankowski, Lazar and hopefully Stone in our starting line-up and more importantly we will not have Wideman in the line-up.
B

[browna]

Renewed, will be our 15th year as STH's.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Flamefan1

I have been a Flames season ticket holder and did not have to even think about renewing my tickets. I think the Flames top 3 lines will rival any team in the league and I have faith Brad will look after the goaltending. I believe that there still is a backlog of fans on the list for season tickets although Perhaps that is no longer the case this. I for one am very excited to enjoy our Flames team this season. We will have Jankowski, Lazar and hopefully Stone in our starting line-up and more importantly we will not have Wideman in the line-up.
B

There's a is a big difference between having your name on a list than having to actually having to put down anywhere between 5-20k to pay for a set of season tickets. I'd wager a lot of money the Flames will not be able to to replace all the season ticket holders they lost this season regardless of how many people are on a waiting list which may or may not continue to exist (I have my Doubts if you called the Flames for season tickets today that you wouldn't be able to get them).

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ Yes, would be easy to test.

Again, just apply a bit of logic.

Say whites are about 200 per pair face value and 130 STH cost. People are selling for 100-120 for the pair on game day.

What we had in 2004 was, although at the time surprising, a run to the finals, with a few subsequent years of a team in the conversation for divisional titles, in a very, very good economy.

A lot of the STHs I expect were holdovers from that emotion.

Meh, the tickets will be there when a lot of people feel they need to go.

[calgarywinning]

What. I don't get is the complaints about customer service?

What do people expect. I've been an STH for 6-7 years and i've never been treated poorly.

The principle thing I am buying is the seats that allow me to access the venue and watch the hockey. I think most of the money goes to the players, coaches, venue. It's really a simple transaction. If you don't want seats then you don't have to be there. But why are you upset you don't want seats? Then also, if you been to so much hockey you'd rather be on your bike outside instead of watching a hockey game, why complain about the product? You don't buy it. Why come back and trash it or pretend you are cancelling seats because of customer service? Or a simple increase of 5$ a game. Has anyone got a tax bill from the city of Calgary lately?

Then if have issues they have an office, but what is the issue? Sounds like a 1 star Yelp review because you can't give zero stars. Then, moving beyond that, i've gone down to the STH event and they put a great spread on, treat us well, let us ask questions, prizes. Then they always thank season ticket holders through the years for being involved. Pretty nice. If I need a ticket reprint they do it.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

The principle thing I am buying is the seats that allow me to access the venue and watch the hockey. I think most of the money goes to the players, coaches, venue. It's really a simple transaction. If you don't want seats then you don't have to be there. But why are you upset you don't want seats? Then also, if you been to so much hockey you'd rather be on your bike outside instead of watching a hockey game, why complain about the product? You don't buy it. Why come back and trash it or pretend you are cancelling seats because of customer service? Or a simple increase of 5$ a game. Has anyone got a tax bill from the city of Calgary lately?

I think its because a lot of people view it as MORE than a commercial transaction - perhaps envisioning it even more as a partnership. STH's support the team financially and emotionally. Also a huge time investment. And in return, the flames organization tries to ice a competitive and entertaining team that will contend for a stanely cup.

The flames say it over and over again - its a community asset. And so, are STH's consumers, or are they partners/patrons/benefactors of a community asset? Its a bit of both, but I think its more that STH's increasingly don't feel valued as partners/patrons/benefactors:

1) Over the past 10 years, STH's been asked to give a lot for very little in return. Since 2007-08 season, there has been 3 playoff trips and a long painful rebuild.

2) The first season it looks like the flames might be turning into a contender, we get hit with a 5% price bump. Its not about the money...its about the signal. The cap is unlikely to go up, so the flames don't need the increase to cover increased expenses. The economy is bad, so a lot of STH's are already feeling the squeeze. STH's can't breakeven on games they can't attend - so they're already incurring a larger burden than they were 2 or 3 years ago.

• Sure - asa business, the team is profit maximizing - and if that's the lens though which your season tickets, then no harm, no foul.
  
• But if you viewed your relationship with the flames as more of a partnership, its a move of bad faith - after treating the flames so well through the rough years, they're now treating us quite unsympathetically.

3) When a STH ends a partnership after supporting the team through a rough patch, how does that partnership end? Is it more a "well I really hoped things would have turned out differently; it was great while it lasted. You mean a lot to me" or is it more of a "meh, ok. Couldn't care less; didn't really mean a whole lot anyways. I can probably find a new one."

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

We mean covering costs of games we can't attend.

If you go to all the premium games then you likely won't break even on selling the unpopular games, they usually go for much less than STH cost. On the other hand you got to go the the premium games without paying reseller prices.

[Mista_Incognito]

Originally Posted by calgarywinning

What. I don't get is the complaints about customer service?

What do people expect. I've been an STH for 6-7 years and i've never been treated poorly.

The principle thing I am buying is the seats that allow me to access the venue and watch the hockey. I think most of the money goes to the players, coaches, venue. It's really a simple transaction. If you don't want seats then you don't have to be there. But why are you upset you don't want seats? Then also, if you been to so much hockey you'd rather be on your bike outside instead of watching a hockey game, why complain about the product? You don't buy it. Why come back and trash it or pretend you are canceling seats because of customer service? Or a simple increase of 5$ a game. Has anyone got a tax bill from the city of Calgary lately?.

Obviously, the blind loyalty a fan has for his/her team is not going to be matched by the franchise. It is just not possible.

The experience at the Dome is great and I am sure the value is there for most people. I never trashed the product, just the level of customer I got from the box office over a 10+ year span.

In the end, Flames customer service is a business that follows a "Rogers/Bell" customer service model. If you are expecting to be treated as loyal season ticket holder you will promptly know your just a number. I didn't expect it would make me less enthusiastic about the Flames but it did.

A word of warning for those who are easily jaded.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Of all the things I can complain about the Flames since i've been a season ticket holder (close to ten years now), customer service wouldn't be one of them. I give them full marks for that. That said, all my interactions with them have been when my tickets are fully renewed so it's never really been a negotiation.

[RM14]

I have no problems with Flames or Stamps customer service. I also expect prices to go up 3%-5% every single year, so I am not outraged every year the invoice shows it.

[Sec218]

just received the seat relocation email. you have until June 13th to register for the event which will take place from June 19th to 23rd.

[Cantrader]

Originally Posted by Sec218

just received the seat relocation email. you have until June 13th to register for the event which will take place from June 19th to 23rd.

Thanks , what do people like more online or in person? I am thinking of going in person this year to see the line of sight.

[Sec218]

Originally Posted by Cantrader

Thanks , what do people like more online or in person? I am thinking of going in person this year to see the line of sight.

I prefer going down to the Dome. Last year there seemed to be a lot more seats available on the customer service representative's computer than were indicated online. The seats offered to me (my current seats) by the CSR at the Dome were never available online. Hopefully they have worked out the glitches for this year.

[Robbob]

I think a big part of it is just timing. Unless you have been around long enough and have access the first day it is all luck of checking when someone else has just moved and had their previous seats released.

[bcneil]

I like online better. During my time I was able to swap my pair in whites for a pair in greens. I also wanted to swap my set of 3 in greens (last row) to better greens or oranges, but there were none.

However, several hours later, right before the whole thing was suppose to end, a set of 3 opened up in orange and I grabbed them.
I don't know if I would have had the same luck in person.