"Snack Shaming"?! Is this a thing now?

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Explain to me why there were 36 kids in my classes, and all we did was read the text and regurgitate? In Germany, when I was in the equivalent of grade 3, we were taught how to safely set up and light bunsen burners (in a real science lab with gas taps and equipment for every kid at every station) to blow up magnesium bombs!

Or had a full proper music class? You don't get those until grade 7 here, and usually the teacher is woefully underprepared to actually achieve anything resembling music. When I moved here I was more musically developed than our fresh out of university teacher who had never once ever even played in a professional band!

You're not going to convince me that Canadian education is anything other than at best a horrible joke, and at worst much, much worse.

You're quite right. Music classes in elementary consist of playing the xylophone and hand bells. I try and do a lot more science education with my daughter as their 'science' consists of learning about insulating a ice cube.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Thor

Japan really pushes the idea of independence for their kids at a very early age too, fascinating culture.

Fostering independence in the children used to be the norm here, too. When I was in elementary nobody was driven to school. By grade 4, I was riding my bike to Glenmore Park to play in the woods all day. By grade 5, I was taking the bus downtown to go to movies.

Japan is normal. It's the Anglo world in the last 30 years that has transformed childhood into something unrecognizable to people in any other country or era.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

You're quite right. Music classes in elementary consist of playing the xylophone and hand bells. I try and do a lot more science education with my daughter as their 'science' consists of learning about insulating a ice cube.

That is absolutely brutal. This is why we bitch and whine when resource prices fluctuate and go "aw shucks, poor us," but Germany rebounds from losing world wars and economic depressions to again and again lead the world economically. They invest heavily in education, and as a result their economy is based on high-end high-tech industries. Canada, for the most part, only needs farmers and O&G workers. So no point (investing in education), I guess.

[Flamesoholic]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

The mother herself has said she had given her child fruits to eat on other days. This appeared to be the child preferring to eat banana bread or at least the mother preferring to supply him with it, but little indication that he would go hungry and starve without it. Special snowflake mother who believes the rule shouldn't apply to her and the student takes the punishment.

Not to mention he got to eat it anyways.

See that right there shows me how little you understand about caring for special needs kids. She isn't a " special snowflake", she's a mom dealing with a crappy and very difficult situation with a spectrum child who has feeding issues. Just because these kids will eat something one day doesn't mean they will ever eat it again.

I've seen it with my own child. I give him snap peas one day and he eats them like crazy, tells me they are the best thing ever. Then the next day the sight of them makes him have a break down and he will even throw up with anxiety.

Everyday I send food in my son's lunch bag that I hope he will try it. Everyday most of those foods come home untouched. I send them because I hope the exposure will eventually lead to them becoming "safe". I don't send them with the expectation that he will eat them.
Just because mom sent apples and oranges in the past has no relevance to today. Just because he may have tried the apple or orange in the past does not mean he will find them safe enough to eat today.

Nobody in this thread is advocating kids get pop or chips for a snack. Of course the healthy snacks would be ideal, but the reality is eating disorder kids can't always do it, they just can't. And yeah, the kid still got to eat his food but he was isolated and shamed by a bully who seems to think she has the right to decide what this boy puts in his body.

I think you are so blinded by your fear of fat and calories that you are unable to see that not everyone has the same issues you did as a child. I understand your point of view and I agree with you that teaching children about healthy choices is great, but you can not expect everyone will be able to eat that way all the time. Sometimes the best we can do is just feed them. I hope you can try to understand.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Flamesoholic

See that right there shows me how little you understand about caring for special needs kids. She isn't a " special snowflake", she's a mom dealing with a crappy and very difficult situation with a spectrum child who has feeding issues. Just because these kids will eat something one day doesn't mean they will ever eat it again.

I've seen it with my own child. I give him snap peas one day and he eats them like crazy, tells me they are the best thing ever. Then the next day the sight of them makes him have a break down and he will even throw up with anxiety.

Everyday I send food in my son's lunch bag that I hope he will try it. Everyday most of those foods come home untouched. I send them because I hope the exposure will eventually lead to them becoming "safe". I don't send them with the expectation that he will eat them.
Just because mom sent apples and oranges in the past has no relevance to today. Just because he may have tried the apple or orange in the past does not mean he will find them safe enough to eat today.

Nobody in this thread is advocating kids get pop or chips for a snack. Of course the healthy snacks would be ideal, but the reality is eating disorder kids can't always do it, they just can't. And yeah, the kid still got to eat his food but he was isolated and shamed by a bully who seems to think she has the right to decide what this boy puts in his body.

I think you are so blinded by your fear of fat and calories that you are unable to see that not everyone has the same issues you did as a child. I understand your point of view and I agree with you that teaching children about healthy choices is great, but you can not expect everyone will be able to eat that way all the time. Sometimes the best we can do is just feed them. I hope you can try to understand.

I wish we still had red and blue squares, because this was +1 skill for sure. You owned him.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

https://kliwo.com/2017/03/07/20-best...systems-world/
You can find other links with similar results if you don't like this one.

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

That is absolutely brutal. This is why we bitch and whine when resource prices fluctuate and go "aw shucks, poor us," but Germany rebounds from losing world wars and economic depressions to again and again lead the world economically. They invest heavily in education, and as a result their economy is based on high-end high-tech industries. Canada, for the most part, only needs farmers and O&G workers. So no point, I guess.

So buddy posts a link which appears to be correct, to some point. Every measure will have a different result.

http://fairreporters.net/world/the-b...world-in-2015/

A 2015 study by the OECD ranked the Educational Systems by the results of kids aged 15 at Maths and Science. The ranking is very similar to the general ranking, with top tier Asian countries leading the list:


1. Singapore
2. Hong Kong
3. South Korea
4. Japan
5. Taiwan
6. Finland
7. Estonia
8. Switzerland
9. Netherlands
10. Canada
11. Poland
12. Vietnam
13. Germany

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-38131731

Germany is nowhere to be found.

I am by no means an education guru, but any time on Google will show that Canada score well on schooling.

Anecdotally, my recent experience is that the system (while not perfect) is good.

[transplant99]

There really is a level of stupidity in this thread that I honestly didn't think was achievable.

Unreal.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Explain to me why there were 36 kids in my classes, and all we did was read the text and regurgitate? In Germany, when I was in the equivalent of grade 3, we were taught how to safely set up and light bunsen burners (in a real science lab with gas taps and equipment for every kid at every station) to blow up magnesium bombs!

Or had a full proper music class? You don't get those until grade 7 here, and usually the teacher is woefully underprepared to actually achieve anything resembling music. When I moved here I was more musically developed than our fresh out of university teacher who had never once ever even played in a professional band!

You're not going to convince me that Canadian education is anything other than at best a horrible joke, and at worst much, much worse.

Perhaps you were placed in a remedial class because of your German education?
Haha. I'm kidding.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So buddy posts a link which appears to be correct, to some point. Every measure will have a different result.

http://fairreporters.net/world/the-b...world-in-2015/



http://www.bbc.com/news/education-38131731

Germany is nowhere to be found.

I am by no means an education guru, but any time on Google will show that Canada score well on schooling.

Anecdotally, my recent experience is that the system (while not perfect) is good.

It's found 13th???


Though I agree with your point that canada has a good education system.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Flamesoholic

Nobody in this thread is advocating kids get pop or chips for a snack.

You've clearly missed a huge part of the argument. Separate from the discussion on the special needs child, most people I have argued with have advocated that the parents should get to decide what their children eat. That means if they pack a pop or chips for snack, they get to eat that as a snack. That's been the cusp of the argument since the beginning and the term "snack shaming" comes from really.

This school implemented a policy of having a snack consisting of fruits and vegetables (we really don't know the specific in terms of how regular this is, if there are other snack times for other snacks, or anything else really as the details are vague). Many people took issue with that policy by itself. Not just because of this one child who may or may not eat fruits, but because it's telling them what they can do with their own children. I disagree, and think it's a good policy. No one is being forced to eat something, they are just given the opportunity to eat something that science has shown children are not eating enough of, fostering and teaching them in hopes of tackling that issue.

Many schools take it to an extreme and not only provide a snack time for fruits and vegetables, but decide which ones, ban junk foods, allow only healthy provided meals to eat from, etc. etc. And they have children with lower obesity rates at those schools.

The more I read, the more I think that school's should have a greater influence on what children eat at school. Forgetting special dietary and special need children, for a second, what's the actual downside?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I didn't imply anything. I politely asked a question, so Oling could respond. even he acknowledged that.

When you write "why in this case should the government be able to dictate to the parents how their child should be raised and indoctrinated, but not in others?" there is certainly an implication that he supports government being able to tell parents how to raise their kids.

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

and I'm not jumping to conclusions any more than anyone else did.

my opinion is that the teacher acted quite poorly in this situation and instead of being guided in healthy eating, the students were shown how to ostracize a classmate.

the discussion of healthy eating in this case is secondary to how the teacher acted.

You absolutely jumped to conclusions. Many others are as well. If there's one thing that's consistently true about situations in education, it's that they're complex. That article has a few brief quotes from one side of the story and no details about the actual interactions that happened between teacher and child. The only way to reach conclusions about the parties involved is to jump to conclusions. You're even jumping to conclusions about other children in the class, which is an additional leap.

[doctajones428]

This thread is absolutely ridiculous.

He eats 200 calorie banana bread, his special snowflake mom must be a fatty! He's autistic, he must have a severe eating disorder that causes him to puke at the mere sight of oranges!

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

This thread is absolutely ridiculous.

He eats 200 calorie banana bread, his special snowflake mom must be a fatty! He's autistic, he must have a severe eating disorder that causes him to puke at the mere sight of oranges!

Where did they say the caloric value of the banana bread?

Depending on the serving size and where it came from, you can go as high as 400+ for a slice. Daily caloric requirement for a Grade 1 kid is going to be around 1400ish

[monkeyman]

If schools want to ban anything it should be white bread. It's nothing but refined flour with all of the beneficial grains and nutrition removed, the body quickly converts it to sugar which leads to weight gain and an increased risk of type 2 diabetes, which is also rapidly rising in children.
I wonder if they make anyone with a white bread sandwich sit outside during lunch?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

If schools want to ban anything it should be white bread. It's nothing but refined flour with all of the beneficial grains and nutrition removed, the body quickly converts it to sugar which leads to weight gain and an increased risk of type 2 diabetes, which is also rapidly rising in children.
I wonder if they make anyone with a white bread sandwich sit outside during lunch?

I wonder what the overall nutritional difference is between the slice of banana bread vs a slice of white bread and a banana? Depending on the recipes used, they could easily be almost the same.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

If schools want to ban anything it should be white bread. It's nothing but refined flour with all of the beneficial grains and nutrition removed, the body quickly converts it to sugar which leads to weight gain and an increased risk of type 2 diabetes, which is also rapidly rising in children.
I wonder if they make anyone with a white bread sandwich sit outside during lunch?

Add whole wheat bread. All the issues of white bread with a health halo around them. That said calories need to come from somewhere and white bread is essentially responsible for all civilization. (Not white bread per say but the cultivation of grains and grinding them into easily digestible flour)

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by GGG

Add whole wheat bread. All the issues of white bread with a health halo around them. That said calories need to come from somewhere and white bread is essentially responsible for all civilization. (Not white bread per say but the cultivation of grains and grinding them into easily digestible flour)

While i agree with you regarding the cultivation and grinding of grains, white bread as we know it today is a 20th century innovation. Historically, grains were ground but not removed. It's this highly refined process that gave us nice soft, white bread. It also gave us bread without the healthiest parts, with most of the fibre and vitamins removed. It also makes it much easier for our bodies to convert to sugar.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

When you write "why in this case should the government be able to dictate to the parents how their child should be raised and indoctrinated, but not in others?" there is certainly an implication that he supports government being able to tell parents how to raise their kids.




You absolutely jumped to conclusions. Many others are as well. If there's one thing that's consistently true about situations in education, it's that they're complex. That article has a few brief quotes from one side of the story and no details about the actual interactions that happened between teacher and child. The only way to reach conclusions about the parties involved is to jump to conclusions. You're even jumping to conclusions about other children in the class, which is an additional leap.

if you can't infer anything from an article, no matter which side you're on, there wouldn't be any discussion on this board, ever.

people made assumptions from the info they have, rightly or wrongly and we judge based on our own opinions, ethics and feelings.
I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I admit that, and I can have difficulty in properly getting my point across. but I'm trying.

leaving aside the debate about forcing nutritional and eating decisions on students, it seems reasonable to debate how the teacher dealt with the special needs student. flamesoholic made amazing points in this regard, especially in the face of the fervor Oling is pursuing his argument.

[dissentowner]

If I resided in Calgary I would swear this teacher would probably end up being my ex. Totally sounds like something she would do (because she is f'n crazy!).

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

if you can't infer anything from an article, no matter which side you're on, there wouldn't be any discussion on this board, ever.

My point is that this specific article is far too thin on details to make any judgement, not that all articles are too thin on details to form opinions.

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

people made assumptions from the info they have, rightly or wrongly and we judge based on our own opinions, ethics and feelings.
I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I admit that, and I can have difficulty in properly getting my point across. but I'm trying.

Apologies if my tone has been condescending.

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

leaving aside the debate about forcing nutritional and eating decisions on students, it seems reasonable to debate how the teacher dealt with the special needs student. flamesoholic made amazing points in this regard, especially in the face of the fervor Oling is pursuing his argument.

It is reasonable to debate how teachers should deal with special needs students, but not how this particular teacher dealt with this particular special needs student. Essentially, that teacher is now being vilified in the court of public opinion without anything like adequate detail.

I don't live in Calgary and haven't for a long time, but that's a person in the Calgary community who is being both personally and professionally attacked publicly on the basis of an article that doesn't contain the details for anyone to really know the situation. That's not fair to this person. I wouldn't want that standard for someone in my community.