[News] Jimmy Vesey will go to unrestricted free agency

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Nothing to do with what I said (or the actual topic at hand). What does Jimmy Vesey owe anyone in the NHL? Nothin' (yet). Guy wanted his Ivy league degree (don't blame him for that one bit) now that he's set to graduate he wants to go work where he can get work that he wants to go to just like every other guy in his class. But what? He has to sign in Nashville because some guy who probably didn't even get out of his seat said his name four years ago? I don't ship that.

Well using your analogy I would equate it to an unpaid internship. There is an arrangement between professional organization and prospective employee. The organization proscribes development goals for the player and gives regular feedback as to what it will take to achieve regular employment. They even provide training sessions (summer camps) in order to assess, inform, and goal-set with the prospective employee. There is no guarantee of employment at the end of the internship, nor is the employee required to accept an offer, but there is an arrangement, an affiliation if you will, that is built on good faith, which often leads to regular employment. However, the one big difference is that the player doesn't work directly for the team until they have signed that professional contract, so basically they're getting tutelage and guidance from a professional organization in the hopes that they become a viable employee while they are still in school. Being that the NHL is an elite network of professional hockey clubs, the arrangement between prospect and club should be one of mutual respect and professionalism. If the club mistreated or misled him somehow, I could see why he wouldn't feel obligated to tell them his intentions, but that's not what happened. This is basically using the internship from one company to leverage a position with another company behind the first company's back. It's cutthroat, and not against the rules, but wholly unethical and frowned upon.

The kid is going to realize one day that being disingenuous with your business relations is the quickest way to have NO business relations. If you're not trustworthy, nobody will want to do business with you or hire you.

[psyang]

Originally Posted by heep223

I thought they said that they informed the Preds he wouldn't be signing a few days before the trade deadline.

Now it's "they were informed prior to the deadline that they should conduct their business as they saw fit, and that the potential of signing or not signing Vesey should not be a factor in their decision".

Pretty greasy if you ask me.

Even worse, it doesn't rule out Nashville's side of the story - that Jimmy himself told Fenton that he would sign. It sounds like pure spin.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Meh. I trust what Nashville says over that. It makes no sense for them to lie about it.

What makes sense about Vesey's agent lying about it? I think Nashville management has more incentive to lie then Vesey's representation (albeit that's low incentive in and of itself). That's not to say who (if anyone, since it could be a function of one side saying/hearing something but the other side misunderstanding) is lying but I don't think anyone involved has any sort of street cred where their word should be considered gospel.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Well using your analogy I would equate it to an unpaid internship.

Considering that any interaction took place during his education and he had no choice as to the local I think a more accurate analogy would be a practicum.

I've never known anyone who felt obligated to work for the place where they had a practicum when their schooling was done.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Parallex

What makes sense about Vesey's agent lying about it? I think Nashville management has more incentive to lie then Vesey's representation (albeit that's low incentive in and of itself). That's not to say who (if anyone, since it could be a function of one side saying/hearing something but the other side misunderstanding) is lying but I don't think anyone involved has any sort of street cred where their word should be considered gospel.

Just a gut feeling. Nashville's front office in a conspiracy vs Vesey's agent.

Someone is lying and I think it's Vesey's side, that's all. He has more incentive to make himself look good than Nashville has to smear him with lies.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I think the analogies to real world work are very difficult. This isn't a fair market system where an employee can go where he feels like.

I think most fans support the team over the player because it is this system, that at least in theory, promotes parity, certainly moreso than a free-agent free for all. Also factor in the notion that many people likely feel that these individuals are extremely fortunate to be in a position to make excellent money at a very early age playing a game. Probably not entirely fair, but I favour the team position as well.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

He has more incentive to make himself look good than Nashville has to smear him with lies.

I think Nashville's management has a higher incentive in not making it appear that they blew an opportunity to leverage a high value commodity. What's Vesey's incentive... "the feels"? I don't see how he makes any more scratch out of it.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I think Nashville's management has a higher incentive in not making it appear that they blew an opportunity to leverage a high value commodity. What's Vesey's incentive... "the feels"? I don't see how he makes any more scratch out of it.

He gets to play where he wants and not be the bad guy.

From Nashville's POV, the thing that really strikes me is the level of righteous indignation that came through in their responses/statements. I've never seen anything like it, and lots of guys have screwed teams like this in the past. I'm inclined to believe that over Vesey's response, that's all. Maybe it's an elaborate lie from Poile and pals, but I'm inclined to believe it's not.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

He gets to play where he wants and not be the bad guy.

So just "the feels" then. Really where would he be "the bad guy"... just Nashville. That'll probably be more then made up for wherever he elects to sign. I think Poile's incentive to lie here is bigger... "the feels" vs. appearing to have mucked up at his job.

Really Poile did just screw up here. Once he didn't sign on last year they should have leveraged the asset rather then risk what happened. Poile gambled and lost, I shed precisely zero tears for Poile's lost bets.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Parallex

So just "the feels" then. Really where would he be "the bad guy"... just Nashville. That'll probably be more then made up for wherever he elects to sign. I think Poile's incentive to lie here is bigger... "the feels" vs. appearing to have mucked up at his job.

Really Poile did just screw up here. Once he didn't sign on last year they should have leveraged the asset rather then risk what happened. Poile gambled and lost, I shed precisely zero tears for Poile's lost gambles.

I don't know, Poile is one of the best and most experienced GMs in the game, I don't see him dropping the ball this bad.

As for Vesey, he and his agent are probably more interested in turning this story around for PR reasons. He hasn't even played a game and his name is already mud to a lot of people. He's a young kid, he's probably overwhelmed with all the vitriol being directed towards him, justified or not. I can see him wanting the situation to go away. If I was him, I would want to have my cake and eat it too as well.

[calgarybean]

For Nashville it blows that they took a flyer on him but that is it.
No money, time spent or anything else. They just held his rights.
Part of the trade off when a prospect goes the college route.
Team gets the time to see how they pan out and its sphincter tightening time until they sign.

I think what the kid did was scuzzy but well within his rights.
Buyer beware on the team that picks him up.

[stemit14]

It is a real concern with drafting players that are going the college route. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the agent/adviser for these kids... I would probably advise them the same way:

You have the luxury of being able to control your own destiny. You've worked hard for years for this chance. If you feel a loyalty to the team that drafted you and want to sign with them that's great... It's admirable and we can go down that road right now. But just keep in mind that this is a business first and foremost... loyalty in this league is a very fickle thing. If you don't believe me... Ask the greatest player of all time. Gretzky lead the oilers to 4 Stanley cups in less than a decade and was traded because this league is a business. Loyalty only goes so far. You can find countless examples like this all over the history of the league. Any NHL team will not hesitate to trade you if it meant a better return... Loyalty or not. Remember that when deciding what team you want to control your NHL rights till you're 26 years old.


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[I am Beast]

Lets toss Gilmour to Nashville for Vesey's rights to have some extra time with his agent to see if there's a fit. Doesn't cost us anything....

[T@T]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Yeah I really don't like it either. They should extend the time teams hold draft rights by one year so these collage players would have to go play in Europe or something if they really didn't want to sign with the teams that drafted them.

I don't think it's fair to the player to go that far as their development could hit a wall.

My answer? the drafting team holds "a right to match" any other NHL offer for a year.

[sureLoss]

In a move that shocks some college hockey people, Jimmy Vessey wins the Hobey Baker over favourite Kyle Connor.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

In a move that shocks some college hockey people, Jimmy Vessey wins the Hobey Baker over favourite Kyle Connor.

I thought that was pretty status quo for the NCAA to reward Sr's over Freshman for the Hobey. Connor will get his I am sure.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I thought that was pretty status quo for the NCAA to reward Sr's over Freshman for the Hobey. Connor will get his I am sure.

It is, but Connor had 25 pts more than Vesey and played in a much harder conference. Connor was 1.87 pts/game vs Vesey's 1.37.

Not too sure will get that Hobey Baker in the future, lots of talk that he is going pro next year.

[The Yen Man]

Didn't the same thing happen with Gaudreau during his second year? He had better stats in every category than the other two, yet still didn't win. That's when I knew the Hobey Baker is pretty much a rigged award.

[hockey.modern]

@GlobeKPD

As a father, said Jim Vesey, Sr, he would suggest his son NOT sign with Bruins. Reason: too much scrutiny and pressure for a hometown kid.

[Poe969]

In other words...sign with the leafs!