What's wrong with the Flames?

[Erick Estrada]

LOL people are singling out Hamilton really? He's the new guy adjusting to a new system and pairings and if any player deserved some rope it's him. What about the rest of the defense group that has been hot garbage? Giordano has had one good game to date this season out of five and Wideman and Russell have been absolutely horrible. It's a team issue right now end of story.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

First of all, it's five games. Nothing is wrong with them that can actually be ascertained. You can ask "why did they lose that game" in respect of a particular game, but it's far too early to talk about some systemic problem with this year's team, unless you're extrapolating from last year.

Same goes for a team like Anaheim - if they'd gone through this stretch in early February, no one would even notice, but people are now asking "what's wrong with the Ducks". Um, nothing, this sort of stretch happens to good teams every year and you're only noticing because it's happening early.

All of that being said... turns out TJ Brodie is like, super important, you guys.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

.....I think the outcome this year will be a basement finish in the West, maybe even in the league

And if the Flames did, the Oilers would somehow still draft first overall...

[ricardodw]

What you are seeing with the Flames is the full blown impact of them breaking the RGI rules...

They have 7 regulars who are playing like they are playing non-contact beer hockey:

Hamilton 6 games 3 hits
Gio 6 games 3 hits
Backlund 6 games 2 hits
Monahan 6 games 1 hit
Mason Raymond 4 games 1 hit
Gaudreau 6 games 0 hits
Hudler 6 games 0 hits
Kulak 6 games 0 hits

Kulak is playing like a less talented Derrick Smith.


Frolik, who has been a pleasant surprise for me, who over his career plays a non-contact game has enough residual grit and sees the need to make some physical contact left over from the Jets has 5 hits in 6 games. He looks to be trying and is upset with the Flames being outplayed.b

Picking and dressing Kulak as the #6D man on this small passive team is enough to question what the heck is Hartley thinking. If BT does not have at least one aggressive #6/7 d-man in the organization we are in trouble longterm. Is Sieloff as #6 going to cause the Flames to lose more??


I hope that the Flames basically getting swept in the first 7 game segment does not have them back on the golf course.

The next 7 games the flames need to get 8 points or the season is over and they should tank......

Playoff style hockey coming up? or has Hartley totally lost the room?


PS Montreal considered the smallest least physical team in the league and is off to 7-0 have only 4 regulars with 3 hits or less

[pacde]

The board is hard to follow when the Flames are struggling
worse than most fan bases Im guessing

The team had some major changes in the off season since last playoff run
Gio back, new stud defense man in Hamilton
new top end winger in Frolik
lots of adjusting to the growth of the young guys

this is a team that just hasnt found their chemistry yet and because they are young, its going to take more time to find that and its going to be more difficult to find.

To think that professional hockey players aren't trying hard enough or need to be bag skated or don't want to do better and if we beat them harder somehow then their performance will improve is ridiculous and unsustainable... and more than a little immature.

I think I put down that they weren't trying hard enough as an option as well but I guess I think one can always try harder somehow - this is a team making mistakes, not a team playing beer league hockey.

Nobody knows what this team will look like when it starts to come around and we dont know if they will have enough to overcome the hole they are digging for themselves - but its going to turn around

[pacde]

Just want to add that even Carey Price couldn't carry this team right now - goaltending is exposed because of the rest of the team, not the other way around.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by pacde

The board is hard to follow when the Flames are struggling
worse than most fan bases Im guessing

I'm guessing you are wrong. No worse and in fact arguably better than any other Canadian fan base. The rebuild was handled really well by Flames fans. We accepted we would be players in the McDavid sweepstakes and yet were pretty positive. Good things happened instead and maybe expectations are simply a little too high for where they are in the rebuild. I don't see people screaming for coach/GM firings.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by pacde

The board is hard to follow when the Flames are struggling
worse than most fan bases Im guessing

The team had some major changes in the off season since last playoff run
Gio back, new stud defense man in Hamilton
new top end winger in Frolik
lots of adjusting to the growth of the young guys

this is a team that just hasnt found their chemistry yet and because they are young, its going to take more time to find that and its going to be more difficult to find.

To think that professional hockey players aren't trying hard enough or need to be bag skated or don't want to do better and if we beat them harder somehow then their performance will improve is ridiculous and unsustainable... and more than a little immature.

I think I put down that they weren't trying hard enough as an option as well but I guess I think one can always try harder somehow - this is a team making mistakes, not a team playing beer league hockey.

Nobody knows what this team will look like when it starts to come around and we dont know if they will have enough to overcome the hole they are digging for themselves - but its going to turn around

They aren't that young. The core and the supporting cast is full of guys in the 30s. The players struggling the most right now, outside of Hamilton are the veterans.

[pacde]

Other fan bases had optimistic posts as well don't you think?

makes the point rather than refutes it.
6 games in - although Ill concede its been a tough start and disappointing to watch

Go Flames

[CSharp]

If it wasn't for the McDavid Sweepstakes that the Flames decided not to partake, the beginning of this season would've been just another one of those rebuild status for the club. 30 teams in the NHL - I'd say about 20 of them positioned themselves to either go for McDavid or to get some kind of a higher draft pick than normal based on the quality of the players available in the last draft. The Flames rebuild hasn't even finished and yet the team and the fans are thinking about winning the Cup this year or within a couple of years. That's totally unrealistic expectations.

Secondly, the Flames defense is still small, especially with Russell and Wideman playing second pairing together. Everyone's figured out that these guys will try to block a shot than play the body. Even though Hamilton is big, from what I've seen so far, he's not playing the body in his own zone like he's supposed to. Basically, what you have with the Flames defense is everyone is playing the puck either to get a fancy play going or to block shots.

Overall, the Flames are still a smallish team. Take a look at teams like the Blues, Hawks, Sharks, and Jets. These are big teams with big d-men that'll smack the Flames forwards around and clear the front of the net. Their forwards have no problems dancing in the Flames zone for 40 minutes a game.

[the_only_turek_fan]

[Sgrath]

Seems to me that part of the problem is that they are struggling to switch from last seasons low possession fast breakout game to a more sustainable possesion based game. You can see them in two minds a lot of the time trying to figure out what to do and with the speed of the NHL by the time they figure out who to pass to it's turnover, panic, fire drill and down another goal.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Sgrath

Seems to me that part of the problem is that they are struggling to switch from last seasons low possession fast breakout game to a more sustainable possesion based game. You can see them in two minds a lot of the time trying to figure out what to do and with the speed of the NHL by the time they figure out who to pass to it's turnover, panic, fire drill and down another goal.

Yep. Last year's fast break system isn't working any more. They need to play more of a possession game, and they don't have the personnel for that. This won't be a quick fix.

[Property Manager DB]

Effort and Goaltending both separately and collectively

[FlamesPuck12]

Hard to believe that this group was the hardest working team last year. Effort is definitely lacking but a combination of everything.

[cannon7]

I stand by my view that other teams have just figured out the Flames system and are exploiting it. If there's a consistent trend of the past 6 games it is that the Flames can't get established in the offensive zone, they struggle to get through the neutral zone and they need to risk an odd-man rush against to make anything happen offensively. And it is costing us dearly. You can't expect our goalies to stop 2-on-1s and 3-on-1s because a d-man has to put himself out of position just to give our offense a boost.

The Flames system is broken. It is easily exploited by a 1-3-1 or 1-4-0 formation and the Flames have no response. Until the coaching staff opens their eyes and sees that they're getting outcoached, this will only continue.

Wish there was a "system" option on the poll. But that begins and ends with the coaching staff. For an Adams trophy winner, you'd think he'd already be adjusting. Instead this stupid stretch game continues to fail in front of him.

[Johnny Rotten]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I stand by my view that other teams have just figured out the Flames system and are exploiting it. If there's a consistent trend of the past 6 games it is that the Flames can't get established in the offensive zone, they struggle to get through the neutral zone and they need to risk an odd-man rush against to make anything happen offensively. And it is costing us dearly. You can't expect our goalies to stop 2-on-1s and 3-on-1s because a d-man has to put himself out of position just to give our offense a boost.

The Flames system is broken. It is easily exploited by a 1-3-1 or 1-4-0 formation and the Flames have no response. Until the coaching staff opens their eyes and sees that they're getting outcoached, this will only continue.

Wish there was a "system" option on the poll. But that begins and ends with the coaching staff. For an Adams trophy winner, you'd think he'd already be adjusting. Instead this stupid stretch game continues to fail in front of him.

Although I'd like to disagree with you on this, I can't totally. Teams have to adjust, but one thing I'd like to know, and I haven't heard much about this, but was training camp as "hard" as the last ones under Hartley?

The past couple years all we heard was how hard the Flames training camp was. Was Hartley's camp as challenging this year?

[genetic_phreek]

Maybe Big Ern is missed in the room? Last season we had him to start the season and all our players played however they wanted to with no fear. He was also a good personality.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

What you are seeing with the Flames is the full blown impact of them breaking the RGI rules...

They have 7 regulars who are playing like they are playing non-contact beer hockey:

Hamilton 6 games 3 hits
Gio 6 games 3 hits
Backlund 6 games 2 hits
Monahan 6 games 1 hit
Mason Raymond 4 games 1 hit
Gaudreau 6 games 0 hits
Hudler 6 games 0 hits
Kulak 6 games 0 hits

Kulak is playing like a less talented Derrick Smith.


Frolik, who has been a pleasant surprise for me, who over his career plays a non-contact game has enough residual grit and sees the need to make some physical contact left over from the Jets has 5 hits in 6 games. He looks to be trying and is upset with the Flames being outplayed.b

Picking and dressing Kulak as the #6D man on this small passive team is enough to question what the heck is Hartley thinking. If BT does not have at least one aggressive #6/7 d-man in the organization we are in trouble longterm. Is Sieloff as #6 going to cause the Flames to lose more??


I hope that the Flames basically getting swept in the first 7 game segment does not have them back on the golf course.

The next 7 games the flames need to get 8 points or the season is over and they should tank......

Playoff style hockey coming up? or has Hartley totally lost the room?


PS Montreal considered the smallest least physical team in the league and is off to 7-0 have only 4 regulars with 3 hits or less

I agree with ricardo