Flames at Pride reaction

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanInEdmonton

I'm all for the Flames participating in any community event. Maybe I'm a little old school or something but to be honest I don't understand these parades...admittedly perhaps that's because I'm not gay. For the record, I don't care what someone's sexual orientation is. I'm all for the freedom to be who you want to be in this world as long as it doesn't hurt other people. I guess my thinking is, in holding a parade like this is it not accomplishing the exact opposite of what the parade is for? It's almost like trying to segregate yourself from the rest of the community. To me it says "hey look at us...we're different"...when I think the message should be you're not different at all. There is nothing abnormal about it. Your gay. I'm straight. So what? We are all still people.

1998 called.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You'd probably get the same kind of reaction as those cool dudes who hold white power events. It usually goes like this:

1) A couple dozen morons show up to protest the 'imgrints and turbans or the Jews running Hollywood or whatever else is holding them down.

2) A hundred other people show up to shout at them.

3) Everyone else rolls their eyes, and maybe laughs at the people who would do something so stupid as hold a white power (or in this case a "Straight Pride") event.

But have at 'er if you want. Nobody is stopping you. If really want to celebrate the fact that you like the ladies, start the movement.

I like the ladies too, but I can't possibly imagine a reason I'd need to "celebrate" it though. The old "I want a straight pride parade to prove that the homos will call me a homophobe if I have a straight pride parade" doesn't cut it.

lol that wasn't my point. I definitely wasn't planning on making one because as you said it would be ridiculous. 3) is pretty much my reaction to the pride parades. "You have your preferences, good for you... so now what?" that's my exact reaction to pride parades.

[dammage79]

A rare sighting of the little known Introverts parade:



EDIT: I just wanted to say good for the Flames for participating. Everyone should support equal rights and it's good that so many feel a parade to celebrate openness is necessary. I don't abide to that ideology because I feel true equality does not need flags or parades or to be celebrated. It is a way of life in which I live and do not need to publicise. I treat no one any differently than anyone else based on orientation or race or religion. Life's too short to judge and chastise anyone for the way they choose to live. Doesn't affect my life in any negative or positive way.

[troutman]

The late, great, Lou Reed:

There's a down town fairy singing out "Proud Mary"
As she cruises Christopher Street
And some Southern Queen is acting loud and mean
Where the docks and the Badlands meet

This Halloween is something to be sure
Especially to be here without you

There's a Greta Garbo and an Alfred Hitchcock
And some black Jamaican stud
There's five Cinderellas and some leather drags
I almost fell into my mug

There's a Crawford, Davis and a tacky Cary Grant
And some Homeboys lookin' for trouble down here from the Bronx

But there ain't no Hairy and no Virgin Mary
You won't hear those voices again
And Johnny Rio and Rotten Rita
You'll never see those faces again

This Halloween is something to be sure
Especially to be here without you

There's the Born Again Losers and the Lavender Boozers
And some crack team from Washington Heights
The boys from Avenue B and the girls from Avenue D
A Tinkerbell in tights

This celebration somehow gets me down
Especially when I see you're not around

There's no Peter Pedantic saying things romantic
In Latin, Greek or Spic
There's no Three bananas or Brandy Alexander
dishing all their tricks

It's a different feeling that I have today
Especially when I know you've gone away

There's a girl from Soho with a teeshirt saying "I Blow"
She's with the "jive five 2 plus 3"
And the girls for pay dates are giving cut rates
Or else doing it for free

The past keeps knock, knock, knocking on my door
And I don't want to hear it anymore

No consolations please for feelin' funky
I got to get my head above my knees
But it makes me mad and mad makes me sad
And then I start to freeze

In the back of my mind I was afraid it might be true
In the back of my mind I was afraid that they meant you

The Halloween Parade
At the Halloween parade
At the Halloween parade
See you next year, at the Halloween parade

http://gothamist.com/2013/10/31/revi..._ode_to_th.php

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

lol that wasn't my point. I definitely wasn't planning on making one because as you said it would be ridiculous. 3) is pretty much my reaction to the pride parades. that's my exact reaction to pride parades.

It's really baffling that people can be so dense about this issue.

We're talking about a group that's been discriminated against to the point where many of them have needed to hide who they are up in recent years / generations. That discrimination is still very prevalent in many facets and these events allow people to gather together for support and to show they no longer need to hide, that they can celebrate (with pride) who and what they are.

The "I don't feel the need to throw a straight-pride parade" take is so ignorant it's at the point where it's dull it's so insensitive.

You saying "You have your preferences, good for you... so now what?" reeks of arrogance in that you seem to think the point of the gathering and celebration is somehow about you. If you aren't interested in it, you can pay it no mind. Do you have the same reaction to "Latin Fest" for example? "Great, you enjoy celebrating Latin Culture. Good for you. So now what?"

Pride is for the people involved to gather and find a sense of greater acceptance. The fact you feel the need to weigh in on it at all if it doesn't interest you is really strange.

[jayswin]

I actually enjoy seeing posters squirm around the fact that they're not completely comfortable with the LGBT community. Here's a hint, if you start a post with "I'm totally okay with the LBGT community and I think it's great that the Flames are involved", but then you have a second paragraph that lists "issues" with it and/or express disdain for those that challenge people who don't like the Flames being there.......

If you're completely comfortable with that community and like that the Flames are involved, then either A) Your post would end there, or B) You wouldn't be posting in the thread. If your post continues on with the classic "I'm not a homophobe, but" routine, then you probably are a little bit homophobic.

I think because homophobic is such a "you're not with the times" and "you're not for equality" term these days, people tend to get very offended at the idea that they would be labelled like that, as everyone wants to believe they are kind and fair, and aren't bigoted or against groups of people for no reason.

But the reality is, when you look at the definition of homophobic, it really does state that most people who aren't comfortable with the LBGT community and don't support communities/organizations from doing whatever they can to help a marginalized portion of society are at least a little bit homophobic.

Homophobia - unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.

[PepsiFree]

In a world where you're fully accepting of the gay community, you don't have a "gay friend". You have a friend, and you don't need to use their sexuality to justify your position. You don't wonder about a straight parade because the pride parade isn't a "gay" parade, it's just another parade anyone could participate in.

Here is an interesting article that highlights why the issue will probably fade as younger generations grow older. We simply identify less and less with either/or. I know I surely don't. The relevance of the labels are fading.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-yougov-survey

[jayswin]

And I guess just to relate my post to this thread. Illuminati, could you simplify and clarify your position by stating;

Are you completely accepting of the LGBT community?

Do you accept that the Flames are involved in many great ways in the community, not just life saving/reaching out to terminally ill fans?

Are you therefore okay with them being involved in Pride week?

If no, then what's your reasoning? And no your answers so far haven't clarified what your actual issue is, because "sports teams should stick to sports" isn't even close to being a thing in 2015. It was probably a thing back in the 30's, but this is today.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In a world where you're fully accepting of the gay community, you don't have a "gay friend". You have a friend, and you don't need to use their sexuality to justify your position. You don't wonder about a straight parade because the pride parade isn't a "gay" parade, it's just another parade anyone could participate in.

Here is an interesting article that highlights why the issue will probably fade as younger generations grow older. We simply identify less and less with either/or. I know I surely don't. The relevance of the labels are fading.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-yougov-survey

This is so wrong. I have friends who identify very specifically as gay, and want to be identified as such. They are strong advocates within the community and want to be a gay buddy, while doing the same #### that every guy does. They think that this helps break barriers. They don't want to be treated any different, but they definitely want to be identified as gay.
To say I'm not fully accepting of them because they are my 'gay friends' is incredibly narrow minded and completely ignorant of the struggle for complete acceptance they still face.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

This is so wrong. I have friends who identify very specifically as gay, and want to be identified as such. They are strong advocates within the community and want to be a gay buddy, while doing the same #### that every guy does. They think that this helps break barriers. They don't want to be treated any different, but they definitely want to be identified as gay.

To say I'm not fully accepting of them because they are my 'gay friends' is incredibly narrow minded and completely ignorant of the struggle for complete acceptance they still face.

Read the sentence directly after.
Identifying people specifically as they wish to be identified is obviously the way to go.
Don't speak to another person's struggle or use it to salt merit on your POV, that's all.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

This is so wrong. I have friends who identify very specifically as gay, and want to be identified as such. They are strong advocates within the community and want to be a gay buddy, while doing the same #### that every guy does. They think that this helps break barriers. They don't want to be treated any different, but they definitely want to be identified as gay.
To say I'm not fully accepting of them because they are my 'gay friends' is incredibly narrow minded and completely ignorant of the struggle for complete acceptance they still face.

You misinterpreted his point, I believe. He was just saying that homophobes aren't making their point more valid when they speak out against the LGBT community while propping up their point with "I have a gay friend".

Maybe not misinterpreted, as he did go into detail about the gay friend/friend thing, but it seemed he was trying to relate it directly to homophobes, in which case I agree completely. There's nothing worse than "I have an X friend, so I can say this"

[SebC]

I sense that there's a segment of the community who aren't specifically against expressing LGBTQ sexuality, they're just against expressing sexuality at all.

In which case my response is still the same - sexuality isn't actually harming you, so you have no moral authority to restrict it.

[Hackey]

I'm definitely all for it. Glad to see the Flames getting involved. I think this just helps people be more accepting of everyone, not just the LGBT community. Promotes that type of thinking which the world could use more of.

Just curious what did people take issue with? The fact they were supporting the event at all or they thought they were over doing it or something else?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by SebC

I sense that there's a segment of the community who aren't specifically against expressing LGBTQ sexuality, they're just against expressing sexuality at all.

In which case my response is still the same - sexuality isn't actually harming you, so you have no moral authority to restrict it.

Did you make the same argument in the wobbly h thread?

Anyways, there are actually some very legitimate and non-homophobic reasons for bring anti-pride that you can dig up with a quick google search, but I highly doubt the people who are against the Flames' participation are against it for those reasons.

[CofR]

I for one am really proud of the team and our players for being supportive and for showing the LGBTQ community of our city, and beyond, that not only are they accepted by the team, but they should be incredibly proud to be who they are.

Surprised and disappointed by so many of the comments on the Flames Facebook picture mentioned earlier.

Sucks about the rain this weekend, hopefully it's clear tomorrow for the parade... If I didn't have to work nights tomorrow I would be there watching and giving support.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Did you make the same argument in the wobbly h thread?

If I did, I've forgotten, because I don't have a clue what that thread would be.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by SebC

If I did, I've forgotten, because I don't have a clue what that thread would be.

I was just busting your balls. Not sure if you were even in that thread. It was the Stampede...uh....public display of affection thread.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Pride is for the people involved to gather and find a sense of greater acceptance. The fact you feel the need to weigh in on it at all if it doesn't interest you is really strange.

Precisely.
And people have to realize that it's one thing to say "I don't want to attend" for whatever reason and it's another (completely wrong) thing to say "They shouldn't hold a parade at all".

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

It's really baffling that people can be so dense about this issue.

We're talking about a group that's been discriminated against to the point where many of them have needed to hide who they are up in recent years / generations. That discrimination is still very prevalent in many facets and these events allow people to gather together for support and to show they no longer need to hide, that they can celebrate (with pride) who and what they are.

The "I don't feel the need to throw a straight-pride parade" take is so ignorant it's at the point where it's dull it's so insensitive.

You saying "You have your preferences, good for you... so now what?" reeks of arrogance in that you seem to think the point of the gathering and celebration is somehow about you. If you aren't interested in it, you can pay it no mind. Do you have the same reaction to "Latin Fest" for example? "Great, you enjoy celebrating Latin Culture. Good for you. So now what?"

Pride is for the people involved to gather and find a sense of greater acceptance.

Just like it seems a bit arrogant of you to think that whoever disagrees with you is dense, ignorant, and insensitive. Have you read my previous comments? of course you haven't, you just enjoy pointing out one liners out of context.

As for the comparison with Latin fest, yes I have the same reaction. One main difference, Latin Fest also doesn't seem to draw as much attention to it for some reason. I don't think that Flames players going to Latin Fest would be a headline in a newspaper, let alone multiple newspapers.

The fact you feel the need to weigh in on it at all if it doesn't interest you is really strange.

If it was a topic made during the hockey season I wouldn't even have opened it. Especially since the replies made to my posts only seem to target the off topic parts of the discussion.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

As for the comparison with Latin fest, yes I have the same reaction. One main difference, Latin Fest also doesn't seem to draw as much attention to it for some reason. I don't think that Flames players going to Latin Fest would be a headline in a newspaper, let alone multiple newspapers.

Really? That's your stance? You are going to tell everyone here you question all parades, festivals and gatherings that don't interest you with an equal "what's the point" attitude?

That was a random example of a gathering trying to illustrate if it's something that doesn't interest you, there's really no need to make a point of ensuring people know that.

The obvious difference would be that until recently (and still very much currently in many regards) the lgbt community is widely discriminated against. That is why there is more publicity when there is additional support and exposure.

You show you completely miss the point when you say you could throw a parade showing your love for the opposite sex. That is and has been openly celebrated every day throughout history through its normalcy. With same-sex, it's been widely shamed and shunned, and that's the reason why there's a gathering celebrating it's acceptance in the first place.

The failure to understand that very simple and fundamental difference really shows there's a degree of underlaying ignorance at play.