2015-16 Raptors and General NBA Thread

[TheAlpineOracle]

Casey has got to go. This is a game That should have been won, and would have been if it wasn't for piss poor game management and shot selection.

Derozan takes a lot of the heat for the Raptors, but Lowry is one of the most unintelligent players in the NBA. Horrible shot selection, unforced giveaways routinely, and out of position a lot on d going for the steal.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Just horrendous coverage on that possession.

[octothorp]

The offense honestly looked better after Game 3 than it does after game 13. They are just doing nothing to try and get themselves a better shot except the occasional high-screen and the occasional kick-out.

[The Big Chill]

I'm finding it difficult to get really into the team this season. It feels like a year of spinning the tires.

The schedule has been tough so far, and I'm sure some results will come when the games against the East pile up, but it's hard to imagine this team doing any damage in the playoffs. I hope we get to see some major changes this season, starting with the head coach.

[kmart]

For the past 3 games the Raptors have had chances to win, yet every game it's the same high pick and roll they run for either Demar or Kyle on offence. Brutal offence has costed them.

I remember watching a game between the Warriors and Nets a week ago and the game was ending and the Warriors were down by three. I would've thought that they would go to either Klay or Steph being the greatest shooting backcourt and all, but instead they use Steph as a decoy and get Igoudala a good look for a three sending the game to OT. It was unpredictable and it worked. Crazy thing is you have Steph accepting being a decoy allowing Igoudala to be the hero.

Moving to the current state of the Raptor, they're just so far off its not even close. Kyle and Demar are great players, but their selfish "hero" play at the end of games is hurting the team. Today I saw Derozan take a tough fadeaway shot against a guy with a 9"7 wingspan nearing the end of the game and I'm thinking to myself the great teams/players would never let that possession be acceptable, but for the Raptors it has been acceptable for far too long.

Now it's not just Demar or Kyles fault, it's also Caseys as well. He's had many years to prove himself, yet year after year the offence continues to have the same holes. Casey isn't the coach for this team moving forward.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The Raptors have an offense they run? I mean sometimes I guess I see it, but it's clear that the issue holding this team back is coaching. Casey's a nice guy and all but they need someone more offensively creative as coach. Raid the Spurs system of someone and hope for the best. Masai being Masai I can see him maybe looking at Becky Hammon.

[adc]

I don't think Casey is a great, or even good, coach but I have a hard time believing that the hero ball/chucking is his plan and not just the default style that DD and Lowry go to. Maybe he deserves blame for not doing more to stop them from playing that way or from continually putting them out (although its not like he has much choice.)

The problem with the offense and team overall in much more with the players than the coach. You can bring in the hot Spurs assistant right now and not much is going to change overall with the same talent.

There is no league that is more player dependant than the NBA, specifically star players. DD and Lowry are talented guys that should be the 2nd or 3rd guys on their teams. Instead they are the top dogs here.

Toronto has fallen into that awful trap of being good enough to "compete" (not for title though they aren't close) but not good enough to draft a top talent unless it is a fluke pick falling like a Leonard or George that happens once every 5 years or so.

Based on the teams he built in Denver and the moves he has made here it seems like Masia Ujiri is perfectly happy with that. He gets a ton of credit for moving Carmelo for some reason but all that did was make Denver mediocre. The fans in TO seem to be in love with the team because they are able to beat up on the Philadelphia and NJ's of the league and put up respectable win totals in the regular season.

I guess it is tough to blow it up when you are winning divisions and winning 45+ games a season but this team isn't anywhere close to being a title contender and don't have the youth coming up and developing that it appears they will be at that level in the next 5 years.

I guess the Raptors can hope that Wiggins makes a hometown return when his deal runs out but the way he looks this year not sure that does anything more than give them a slightly more talented, Canadian Demar Derozan.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The Raptors have an offense they run? I mean sometimes I guess I see it, but it's clear that the issue holding this team back is coaching. Casey's a nice guy and all but they need someone more offensively creative as coach. Raid the Spurs system of someone and hope for the best. Masai being Masai I can see him maybe looking at Becky Hammon.

That would be a very Raptors thing to do, hire someone because of the name/cache value without actually considering if they have done anything to show that they would be a good hire.

I mean hiring former GM's of the Year in Ujiri and Coangelo has worked out so well.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by adc

That would be a very Raptors thing to do, hire someone because of the name/cache value without actually considering if they have done anything to show that they would be a good hire.

I mean hiring former GM's of the Year in Ujiri and Coangelo has worked out so well.

Clearly you weren't over the moon with those hires.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The Raptors have an offense they run? I mean sometimes I guess I see it, but it's clear that the issue holding this team back is coaching. Casey's a nice guy and all but they need someone more offensively creative as coach. Raid the Spurs system of someone and hope for the best. Masai being Masai I can see him maybe looking at Becky Hammon.

Thing is, Nick Nurse was a well-respected Spurs system guy, knows their offensive system really well, and implemented Horns here a couple years ago. But the Raptors have since gone away from it and replaced it with an extremely simplistic scheme. I believe Weltman last year said that they felt that Iso would be more condusive to playoff success, and there was some admission after the playoffs that perhaps they were wrong about that. So I had hoped that we would see a return to Horns or something equally creative this year, but it doesn't look like it. At some point Masai needs to step in and tell the coaching staff to come up with an offense that can execute reliably down the stretch, or get replaced.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Thing is, Nick Nurse was a well-respected Spurs system guy, knows their offensive system really well, and implemented Horns here a couple years ago. But the Raptors have since gone away from it and replaced it with an extremely simplistic scheme. I believe Weltman last year said that they felt that Iso would be more condusive to playoff success, and there was some admission after the playoffs that perhaps they were wrong about that. So I had hoped that we would see a return to Horns or something equally creative this year, but it doesn't look like it. At some point Masai needs to step in and tell the coaching staff to come up with an offense that can execute reliably down the stretch, or get replaced.

They Raptors do everything they can to get a mismatch and try to abuse that mismatch. Very similar to last years faltering offence, which worked against crappy teams but not good ones. Now their are many parties to this including Casey, Lowry, and Demar. Masai's got to find out which ones are the guilty parties and move on from them, because the offence sucks. Personally I'd start with Demar and Casey.

I assumption is that Casey is gone after this season. I'd look to the assistants on the Spurs and Warriors to replace him. Luke Walton is 12-0 and Becky Hammon would be a very cool story.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by kmart

They Raptors do everything they can to get a mismatch and try to abuse that mismatch. Very similar to last years faltering offence, which worked against crappy teams but not good ones. Now their are many parties to this including Casey, Lowry, and Demar. Masai's got to find out which ones are the guilty parties and move on from them, because the offence sucks. Personally I'd start with Demar and Casey.

I assumption is that Casey is gone after this season. I'd look to the assistants on the Spurs and Warriors to replace him. Luke Walton is 12-0 and Becky Hammon would be a very cool story.

If Casey lasts the season with them playing like this I lose all faith in Ujiri. Not that I have a lot to lose. I don't think he has put his stamp on the team in any significant manner. Yeah he got them out from a couple of bad contracts but otherwise he has just shuffled support pieces. Problem is they don't have anything to build around. I suppose they could achieve some success with a totally team orientated offense/defense but Casey is way too dumb to pull that off. Guy just keeps going to the same well over and over and over with the same results.
The team is better on defense. Leading very much to a situation where they should be running a ball movement, control type offense. Cut down the number of possessions and take efficient shots. Cut on your good defense to keep you in games. Coach should be very much dictating exactly what he wants on offense. No iso. No hero ball whatsoever. Yet he thinks he has actual starts that can win games.

Lowry and DD aren't that good. In fact I think if they get moved we will see how much of a GM Ujiri is because I don't think the return is going to be underwhelming.

Casey needs to be gone. It ain't workin!!

[Senator Clay Davis]

As bad as that loss to the Warriors the other night was, at least the Raps didn't blow a 23 point lead like the Clippers did. I'm not sure the Clippers will ever recover from that catastrophic choke to the Rockets in the playoffs last year. The Warriors meanwhile have gone 3-3 the last six times they've trailed by 20 points. Ridiculous.

[TheAlpineOracle]

I'd agree with adc on the Raptors being stuck in between contender and getting a good draft pick. One side of me just wants to see good basketball, but the other would like to see a championship at one point which generally is not attainable in the NBA without years of suckage. Short term, there's no one beating the Cavaliers anyways. Kind of depressing that I can tell you with 99.99% certainty who is winning the East this year in mid-November.

[killer_carlson]

The Raptors dont need the roster tweaked - they need a coaching change.

It's about having an offensive system that isn't based on 2 guys driving into double coverage and hoping that:

a) they make an off balanced shot
b) they get to the foul line
c) they find a teammate open at the last second; or
d) they turn the ball over by attempting a low quality pass then get to yell at a teammate rather than admit their own failings.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

The Raptors dont need the roster tweaked - they need a coaching change.

It's about having an offensive system that isn't based on 2 guys driving into double coverage and hoping that:

a) they make an off balanced shot
b) they get to the foul line
c) they find a teammate open at the last second; or
d) they turn the ball over by attempting a low quality pass then get to yell at a teammate rather than admit their own failings.

They also need someone to develop JV. I see this guy as a potential difference maker, but he needs some coaching (especially on the defensive side of the ball) and Casey doesn't seem to be accomplishing that.

[Johnny199r]

How do you win a championship, or be a real contender without a superstar? Raps are in purgatory.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

They also need someone to develop JV. I see this guy as a potential difference maker, but he needs some coaching (especially on the defensive side of the ball) and Casey doesn't seem to be accomplishing that.

I don't see Valancuinas being the answer though. The guy scores the ball well, not great but well. Otherwise on offence he's a nightmare because he can't pass out of double teams. He's extremely slow on defence, often hurting his team because he can't recover very well. He's not an exceptional shot blocker, so he doesn't alter many shots. I'll give him credit grabbing rebounds and the energy level grabbing rebounds, however he's not an elite rebounder.

Of course theres the development argument, but at this point in his career he is four years in his career, how much development does he have left? Then there is the Casey argument, but simply put he can't defend well against teams that move the ball fast or elite big men (see the game against Sacramento or Golden State).

So other than score the ball at a good rate and rebound he doesn't contribute anywhere else, often hurting his teams in those other areas. He's a good player, just not a main piece of a championship team.

EDIT: Sucks he just got injured for a long term injury too

[kmart]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

How do you win a championship, or be a real contender without a superstar? Raps are in purgatory.

I do agree that you need a superstar, but I'll go to the contrary on how to get a superstar. Some on this forum believe that you need a top 5 pick only. It doesn't have to be with the top 5 picks of a draft. I'll give you some examples.

Stephen Curry 2009 7th pick
Kawhi Leonard 2012 15th pick

Hindsight these guys are the top picks of their drafts and they were selected after the top 3 picks. What is needed is a good eye for talent and thats up to Masai.

[killer_carlson]

JV with a broken hand.