[Trade] Glencross to Washington for a 2015 2nd and 2015 3rd round pick (WSH) (Archive)

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Pointing out he's an adept passer is stating the obvious.

He's a shooter / scorer first, but he's an above average passer as well. Glencross definitely benefited from his vision and passing in their time playing together, and over-all, Iginla is an above average passer.

Any way you shake it, your simplistic comments downplaying his play-making were off the mark.

Where the hell is this coming from.. Iginla is a future hall-of-fame RWer, of course he has above average passing.

For the last time, they RARELY played together. Tanguay and Glencross are both LWers. There was very little time where Tanguay wasn't playing with Iginla. Glencross didn't play top line minutes in the time Iginla was here.

If you think that Glencross was nicknamed 'Scoreface' because he was fortunate enough to play with Iginla then I don't know what else to say. Other then you are wrong.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by The_Future

I agree the only thing we know for sure is what Glencross brings to the table. Bar a 9 game slump, he has been fairly consistent his whole career.

...and it seems likely that he will not be around next year. It seems that you are either overvaluing what he brings to the table now, or that you have forgotten that he is UFA.
For now, I think he is a decent third liner. Good intangibles? Sure, I guess, but that does not seem like a dressing room that is missing on intangibles, Glencross or not.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The_Future

Maybe Connor McDavid is the next Patrik Štefan?

All I am trying to get at is we can't say FOR SURE any one of those 6 players automatically replaces what Glencross brings to the table, McDavid included if you want.

How do you know "for sure" Glencross is going to produce going forward like he did in the past, even this year? You could say, after game 5, that Raymond was going to be a 30 goal man. Then, later, a 5 goal man based on his production after his return. Now, a different projection.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by The_Future

Interesting…..

Glencross 48GP 26PTS

Granlund 33GP 13PTS (A PACE OF 18.9PTS per 48GP)
Baertschi 15GP 4PTS (A PACE OF 12.8PTS per 48GP)
Poirier 0GP 0PTS (A PACE OF OPTS per 48GP)
Bennett 0GP 0PTS (A PACE OF OPTS per 48GP)
Wolf 2GP 0PTS (A PACE OF OPTS per 48GP)
Arnold 0GP 0PTS (A PACE OF OPTS per 48GP)

So if my math is correct All 6 of these players can't even make up for Glencross' production combined.

These days I think the old saying "what have you done for me lately" really shines through. We need points now, what he did 2-3 years ago doesn't mean much for our playoff push this year unfortunately

[The_Future]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Did you really just......

Hell yes I did. You go ahead and count all the chickens before they hatched.

We know what Glencross brings to the table, he has proven it his whole career.

Unless overpaid, I see no reason to move him.

Everyone here thinks a guy like Sven will come in and score 40 points a year, and he hasn't. It's all nice on paper, but there is no proof any one of these rookies will every play on a level Glencross does. Maybe they will, and a few of them probably should far surpass him, and probably they will, but they probably don't step into the line up today and bring to the table what he does. Everyone is looking back 9 games and seeing how poorly he has played. Everyone goes through slumps. Glencross has been a hell of a player for Calgary his whole tenure, and I still believe his is probably more valuable than what his market value is, and we will need a guy like him in the playoffs.

[Phanuthier]

I would like to see Glencross traded only if its for a 1st round pick (or very early 2nd round) or one of those Pittsburg top D prospects. Shoot for the moon, there is really no need to trade him with the West being so tight. I actually think he's a pretty big part of this team and plays a really important role (i.e. eats up important minutes) and even if this is a position of org depth, our minor league team is also in a playoff battle and don't want to deplete their roster either.

Is a 2nd or mid round pick really worth losing a potential playoff birth for both our team and our AHL team?

[The_Future]

Originally Posted by Royle9

These days I think the old say "what have you done for me lately" really shines through. We need points now, what he did 2-3 years ago doesn't mean much for our playoff push this year unfortunately

Oddly enough those point totals are from this year. He is on pace for 41 points THIS YEAR!

[Badgers Nose]

This is a weird thread. I think some of these posts are by random word generator bots.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Where the hell is this coming from.. Iginla is a future hall-of-fame RWer, of course he has above average passing.

You need to look at what you say and how you say it if you're this hypersensative about being called out on things.

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Also Iginla doesn't pass as he's a shooter like Glencross.

That might not be what you meant, but it's what you said. It was a really terrible way to word it on your part and is what started this exchange, becuase it was a bad enough statement it needed to be called out.

As for Glencross playing with Iginla, it was limited (aside from power-play time), but when he did, he most certainly benefited from Iginla's vision and passing. That's a very simple statement in isolation and I'll leave it at that.

[The_Future]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How do you know "for sure" Glencross is going to produce going forward like he did in the past, even this year? You could say, after game 5, that Raymond was going to be a 30 goal man. Then, later, a 5 goal man based on his production after his return. Now, a different projection.

I don't know "for sure" anything but neither does anyone else who knows "for sure" we will get a 1st rounder who will pan out, "for sure" any player/prospect/pick that will pan out, "for sure" Sven will score 40 points, "for sure" anything.

Everyone else around here is "for sure" everything.

All I know is "for sure" this team is playing some of the best hockey I have seen this team play in all my years. All I know "for sure" to a man, they have done this as a team. And "for sure" unless we are going to fetch a solid return, that I would prefer see the team not move anyone.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I can't say a single slightly negative thing about Iginla without someone coming to his aid on CP. It's becoming very tiresome..

When you think Iginla do you think 'passer' or 'sniper'. Sniper, which is why he and Tanguay were always a great pairing. I'm not saying he can't pass, but it's not his strongest ability. The last year Iginla played with Cammy, he also played with Tanguay since they were both shoot first type players.

The previous poster decided to say that Glencross' success was due to Iginla's passing and I was calling him out on it.

Actually, read my post. I said Iginla assisted on a lot of Glencross' goals. I didn't say his success was due to Iginla's passing. Glencross' success was due to Curtis Glencross.

There are many way to get assists. Passes are one. Rebounds are another. Deflections are yet another. And the better the player on whose stick the puck is, the higher the chance the TEAM scores because of the way those great players shift defenses.

When I think of Iginla I think "great multidimensional offensive player" not "sniper" or "passer". Here's his numbers in some of Glencross' better years:

2008-2009	FLAMES	82	35	54
2009-2010	FLAMES	82	32	37
2010-2011	FLAMES	82	43	43
2011-2012	FLAMES	82	32	35

Look at that, as many assists or more pretty much every year as goals. As for Tanguay, He's also been the finisher on Iginla assists (he IS still a pretty good goal scorer with an absurdly high percentage). That does not diminish his skillset or his contributions. Like I said before, Glencross benefitted from playing from Iginla (and Monahan this year) and currently is not benefitted from playing with Raymond, Stajan, Jooris for whatever reason that you insist is "disinterest". If you don't think that, then we have nothing more to discuss.

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by The_Future

Interesting…..

Glencross 48GP 26PTS

Granlund 33GP 13PTS (A PACE OF 18.9PTS per 48GP)
Baertschi 15GP 4PTS (A PACE OF 12.8PTS per 48GP)
Poirier 0GP 0PTS (A PACE OF OPTS per 48GP)
Bennett 0GP 0PTS (A PACE OF OPTS per 48GP)
Wolf 2GP 0PTS (A PACE OF OPTS per 48GP)
Arnold 0GP 0PTS (A PACE OF OPTS per 48GP)

So if my math is correct All 6 of these players can't even make up for Glencross' production combined.

You're joking, right? Because points outside of context are everything?

For starters, Granlund was playing center for the Flames. When discussing wingers, you have to look at Granlund's build and skillset, where as a winger he's going to be much more effective than he was pidgeonholed as a center losing 65% of his faceoffs.

Baertschi? He was playing his season with Bollig, Setoguchi, etc for 8 minutes a night on the fourth line, without even a center. The last time he played a role similar to Glencross, he was putting up 10 points over 20 games, and that was two years ago when he was a twenty year old straight out of Junior without a clue about the pro game (he's a much BETTER player now).

And the other guys? Wolf seemed more effective in his two games than Glencross has since his return from injury. Glencross has 0 points in the last 4 games too, by the way.

Originally Posted by The_Future

All I am trying to get at is we can't say FOR SURE any one of those 6 players automatically replaces what Glencross brings to the table, McDavid included if you want.

We can't know "FOR SURE" what Glencross brings to the table on a given night, either. Or even Sidney Crosby for that matter. You make predictions and projections based on what you know about the player. We know what player Glencross is regardless if he's scoring 50 points or 20 in a given season. Likewise we have a pretty good handle on "those 6 players" to know that they can play 2nd/3rd line wing pretty decently, especially with our great center Backlund leading the way.

[The_Future]

[QUOTE=GranteedEV;5141178]Actually, read my post. I said Iginla assisted on a lot of Glencross' goals. I didn't say his success was due to Iginla's passing. Glencross' success was due to Curtis Glencross.

There are many way to get assists. Passes are one. Rebounds are another. Deflections are yet another.

When I think of Iginla I think "great multidimensional offensive player" not "sniper" or "passer". Here's his numbers in some of Glencross' better years:

2008-2009	FLAMES	82	35	54
2009-2010	FLAMES	82	32	37
2010-2011	FLAMES	82	43	43
2011-2012	FLAMES	82	32	35

Look at that, as many assists or more pretty much every year as goals. As for Tanguay, He's also been the finisher on Iginla assists (he IS still a pretty good goal scorer with an absurdly high percentage). That does not diminish his skillset or his contributions. Like I said before, Glencross benefitted from playing from Iginla (and Monahan this year) and currently is not benefitted from playing with Raymond, Stajan, Jooris for whatever reason that you insist is "disinterest". If you don't think that, then we have nothing more to discuss.

You're joking, right? Because points outside of context are everything?

For starters, Granlund was playing center for the Flames. When discussing wingers, you have to look at Granlund's skillset, where as a winger he's going to be much more effective.

Baertschi? He was playing his season with Bollig, Setoguchi, etc for 8 minutes a night on the fourth line, without even a center. The last time he played a role similar to Glencross, he was putting up 10 points over 20 games, and that was two years ago when he was a twenty year old straight out of Junior without a clue about the pro game (he's a much BETTER player now).

And the other guys? Wolf seemed more effective in his two games than Glencross has since his return from injury. Glencross has 0 points in the last 4 games too, by the way.



We can't know "FOR SURE" what Glencross brings to the table on a given night, either. Or even Sidney Crosby for that matter.

Then why aren't you the coach? If Sven and Granlund can fetch us all these points on a better line we need to fire Hartley immediately, he obviously does not know what they are doing.

On that note, did I go extreme to prove a point? Yes. And I totally get what you are saying.

All I am saying is we don't FOR SURE have 6 guys who can immediately step in and replace Glencross' production. And if the price is right we should most definitely trade him, however I don't think we should move him for a low price for the sake of moving him.

[daveinspruce]

I wonder if we could package up Glencross and Ramo and a pick and see if we could fleece the Coilers?
They get a hard nosed leader better than ferrance. And a goalie better than what they have now.
Hall and Eberle are both Flames Fan's...

[Brewmaster]

There is a reason Glencross is 4th in ice time, 4th in points among current Flames forwards and wears an A on his jersey. There is also reason Granlund, Baertschi, Poirier and Wolf are not regulars on the team yet. As it stands today, Glencross is a valuable forward with a proven ability to score in this league.

Could one of the prospects fill his role if he is traded at the deadline? It's possible but I certainly wouldn't count on it with 25 games to go in the season.

[daveinspruce]

And Glencross gets to stay in Alberta, to chuck wagon.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by daveinspruce

I wonder if we could package up Glencross and Ramo and a pick and see if we could fleece the Coilers?
They get a hard nosed leader better than ferrance. And a goalie better than what they have now.
Hall and Eberle are both Flames Fan's...

Not sure if serious...

Glencross and Ramo are expiring contracts. Why would the Oilers give anything for two guys that will walk at the end of the year - and in the process - get them a worse pick at the draft?

[Heavy Jack]

[QUOTE=The_Future;5141190]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Actually, read my post. I said Iginla assisted on a lot of Glencross' goals. I didn't say his success was due to Iginla's passing. Glencross' success was due to Curtis Glencross.

There are many way to get assists. Passes are one. Rebounds are another. Deflections are yet another.

When I think of Iginla I think "great multidimensional offensive player" not "sniper" or "passer". Here's his numbers in some of Glencross' better years:

2008-2009	FLAMES	82	35	54
2009-2010	FLAMES	82	32	37
2010-2011	FLAMES	82	43	43
2011-2012	FLAMES	82	32	35

Look at that, as many assists or more pretty much every year as goals. As for Tanguay, He's also been the finisher on Iginla assists (he IS still a pretty good goal scorer with an absurdly high percentage). That does not diminish his skillset or his contributions. Like I said before, Glencross benefitted from playing from Iginla (and Monahan this year) and currently is not benefitted from playing with Raymond, Stajan, Jooris for whatever reason that you insist is "disinterest". If you don't think that, then we have nothing more to discuss.



Then why aren't you the coach? If Sven and Granlund can fetch us all these points on a better line we need to fire Hartley immediately, he obviously does not know what they are doing.

On that note, did I go extreme to prove a point? Yes. And I totally get what you are saying.

All I am saying is we don't FOR SURE have 6 guys who can immediately step in and replace Glencross' production. And if the price is right we should most definitely trade him, however I don't think we should move him for a low price for the sake of moving him.

I think we have guys on the current roster like Colby (playing fourth line minutes) Byron (playing fourth line minutes) Jooris (playing third line minutes) who could step in and take Glencross' minutes let alone the fact that Baertschi/Poirier/Granlund could all step in and perform admirably. I really feel moving Glencross would be better developmentally for this organization as a whole and I dont think the hole left by Glencross is a hard one to fill - not taking anything away from what Curtis has done for this organization the past 4 years.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by The_Future

Then why aren't you the coach? If Sven and Granlund can fetch us all these points on a better line we need to fire Hartley immediately, he obviously does not know what they are doing.

Sven DID "fetch us all these points on a better line". For 20 games he scored 10 points. then for the next 26 he scored 11 more. As a wiry 20/21 year old that didn't know a thing about the pro game, and needed all the professional hockey player minutes he could to develop the rest of his game. Now as a stronger, harder-working 22 year old with a much better idea about defense, are you seriously denying that Sven, among five other potential candidates, can fill in for Glencross? Because he hasn't had points in a completely different context?

[daveinspruce]

So they can't sign them? All I know is Edmonton is getting rid of someone up here.
Why can't we at least try.
I sure in the hell don't want Stewart coming here. He had one good season in Colorado and that's it....yet every rumor is that stink is heading this way!
I just wanna see a first pick coming back our way or a great prospect.
Tired of everyone else getting the good deals.
I think the COILERS trade Hall this year....

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by daveinspruce

So they can't sign them? All I know is Edmonton is getting rid of someone up here.
Why can't we at least try.

Because it won't happen. The Oilers aren't going to give anything up that would make them better this season. They're trying to finish last.

Why would they give up something we'd want (and certainly not the high picks or good players you're thinking) for free agents that have next to no chance to re signing with them.

If they wanted those players they can target them in July, not get better this season, and not give anything up.

This isn't rocket appliances.