Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11

[MarchHare]

From Der Postillon (think of it like a German version of The Onion):

http://www.der-postillon.com/2015/01...ebdo-ganz.html

Paris - Islamists and Islam haters around the world currently feel their world view confirmed in the wake of a terrible attack on the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo where at least 12 died. While Islamists are especially proud to have spread fear and terror again, haters of Islam enjoyed the perfect moment to rush to social networks to rail against minorities and immigration. Both sides can look forward to large audiences.

"God is great!" shouts an IS sympathiser (24) from Bochum who has read messages circulating on the Internet and is not disturbed that the bombers assume his God appears to possess the vengeful mind of an spoilt three year old. "This act will encourage many more martyrs and show the unbelievers what we think of their Western values."

Similarly satisfied were haters of Islam and right-wing populists: "These good people are finally seeing that Islam has overwhelmed Europe," says a passionate PEGIDA demonstrator (33) from Dresden. "And then I'll also be accused of being Nazi! On Monday we will therefore be even more determined!"

Few of the overwhelming majority of people who just live in peace and do not want anything to do with such extreme positions - including Muslims, Christians, followers of other religions, agnostics and atheists - had a good day however.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by blankall

No one is forcing them to live in secluded neighborhoods. That's particularly true in Richmond, where people are spending millions to live in predominantly Chinese neighborhoods. They are making the choice not to integrate.

I'm using Richmond as an example of a homogeneous neighbourhood because it's the closest thing we have to some of the Parisian suburbs in Canada in terms of demographics as opposed to problems. It's not a perfect example and I'm not stating Richmond was a problem area.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

Don't kid yourself. If it wasn't killing in the name of religion it would be killing in the name of something else. If there is one thing religious debates have taught me it's that atheists are just as annoying as devout religious people.

I'd like the opportunity to disprove you. Can we start tomorrow?

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by Cheese

I'd like the opportunity to disprove you. Can we start tomorrow?

Disprove what? That people would still kill each other if religion didn't exist? People have been killing each other since the dawn of time. Mankind will always find reasons to take the lives of others.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Cheese

I'd like the opportunity to disprove you. Can we start tomorrow?

How many people died because of the Cold War? They replaced religion with economic idealogy. Someday soon it will be water. It will always be something. We're a violent species.

[Itse]

http://www.juancole.com/2015/01/shar...satirists.html

The problem for a terrorist group like al-Qaeda is that its recruitment pool is Muslims, but most Muslims are not interested in terrorism. Most Muslims are not even interested in politics, much less political Islam. France is a country of 66 million, of which about 5 million is of Muslim heritage. But in polling, only a third, less than 2 million, say that they are interested in religion. French Muslims may be the most secular Muslim-heritage population in the world (ex-Soviet ethnic Muslims often also have low rates of belief and observance). Many Muslim immigrants in the post-war period to France came as laborers and were not literate people, and their grandchildren are rather distant from Middle Eastern fundamentalism, pursuing urban cosmopolitan culture such as rap and rai. In Paris, where Muslims tend to be better educated and more religious, the vast majority reject violence and say they are loyal to France.

Al-Qaeda wants to mentally colonize French Muslims, but faces a wall of disinterest. But if it can get non-Muslim French to be beastly to ethnic Muslims on the grounds that they are Muslims, it can start creating a common political identity around grievance against discrimination.

It's a good read.

[jammies]

The problem isn't with religion in itself, but with the idea that belief is a valid basis on which to guide your actions. Yes, most beliefs are harmless or even benign, but there is no difference in plausibility between the belief that you should be kind to others and the belief that anyone who doesn't share your religion can be killed as a righteous act.

That's what most atheists/agnostics are against - the authority of world-views that are inconsistent within themselves and observed reality, and that dismiss this inconsistency with the tenet that faith explains all. Since almost every religion (and pseudo-religious movement, like fascism or communism) shares this tenet, almost every religion is flawed in the exact same way, and is open to the exact same extremism.

You can't permanently solve that issue by replacing one faith with another. You can only solve it by discrediting faith itself.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Indeed...

God @TheTweetOfGod · 3 hrs 3 hours ago
TERRORIST LOGIC

1. I am concerned about my religion’s negative reputation in the eyes of the world.
2. I will kill people in its name.

[Itse]

Here's another one that I think would be a healthy read for a lot of people here. It's only tangentially related to the shooting, but I think it serves as an important counterpoint to the storyline of east vs. west.

This is not East vs. West. This is radicals vs. normal people. Don't let radicals change your opinions about islam or religion. Instead, have a laugh at them. It's what other muslims are doing already.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle22331032/

On Iraqi state TV, a satirical soap opera dedicated to mocking Islamic State, State of Myth, depicts the gruesome yet absurd “contributions” ISIS fighters and ideology unleash on a fictional town in Iraq, such as a green-energy car-bombing factory– cost-effective, reasonably priced, environment-friendly, and export-ready! All this information is provided by an IS engineer in a TV interview, where the female news announcer has resorted to wearing a sheet while asking questions.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by jammies

The problem isn't with religion in itself, but with the idea that belief is a valid basis on which to guide your actions. Yes, most beliefs are harmless or even benign, but there is no difference in plausibility between the belief that you should be kind to others and the belief that anyone who doesn't share your religion can be killed as a righteous act.

That's what most atheists/agnostics are against - the authority of world-views that are inconsistent within themselves and observed reality, and that dismiss this inconsistency with the tenet that faith explains all. Since almost every religion (and pseudo-religious movement, like fascism or communism) shares this tenet, almost every religion is flawed in the exact same way, and is open to the exact same extremism.

You can't permanently solve that issue by replacing one faith with another. You can only solve it by discrediting faith itself.

The problem with religion is not religion itself. It is an invention by man to explain what we could not by any other reason. The fact that we invent gods in our own image is merely a sign of human arrogance.

The problem with religion is that, as an invention of man, it is just as flawed and just as prone to corruption as mankind is. Religion has become a means of controlling man and one of its most important tools is ignorance. Therefore, it is also true that support for religion is higher where quality of education is lower, and where people are poorer.

And while we frequently lose sight of it - especially on days like today - it is also true that the world of today is a far less brutal place than the world was just one century ago, or two. Or ten. Or twenty. Given more evil has been committed in the name of religion than perhaps any other thing in human history, it should come as no surprise that, as mankind becomes increasingly educated and increasingly rejects faith as an argument, it likewise has become less violent.

[Dynamic]

Why is this thread not about the massive manhunt to find these guys? They are still at large in a populated area.

[CaptainCrunch]

I fully expect that the victims of these scumbags are not the last to die tonight.

these guys seem way to competent to go down easy

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

Why is this thread not about the massive manhunt to find these guys? They are still at large in a populated area.

Lack of developments. Police still performing some raid/search activities in Reims. Not much info coming out. Its late across the pond.


Part of me wants to see this end Boston Marathon style: A semi-public and well documented shootout with police, ending in their ultimate demise with no further loss of police/civilian life.

Having the public listening to the police scanners when Tamerlan was getting shot the f-up and then run over by his brother was the ultimate justice. Even Judge Dredd couldn't pull off that kind of awesome. Then his brother hiding in a boat and botching suicide. You couldn't write a better ending.

[scottish_flame]

I just watched the video of the French officer getting shot. I despise these pricks I hope they die a horrible death and anyone who agrees with their ideas

[Senator Clay Davis]

The officer executed at point blank range was Ahmed Merabet, a Muslim.

http://www.newsweek.com/officer-shot...ntified-297603

[CaptainCrunch]

Yeah, it sounds like he was begging for his life, basically telling the gunman that he was a fellow Muslim.

In the end it didn't matter.

These guys as I watch the video were highly professional, they moved and shot like Soldiers. They held their rifles like soldiers. They used the single shot selector which talks to their discipline.

I wouldn't be surprised if these guys had gone over seas for training or even worse had fought for ISIS and slipped back into the country.


The police are going to be in a foul mood tonight.

[Resolute 14]

CBC already noted the two brothers reportedly went to Syria to fight. So it seems that belief is likely correct, CC.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

These guys as I watch the video were highly professional, they moved and shot like Soldiers. They held their rifles like soldiers. They used the single shot selector which talks to their discipline.

I wouldn't be surprised if these guys had gone over seas for training or even worse had fought for ISIS and slipped back into the country.

I saw one news article that mentioned the brothers had returned from Syria and one had been arrested prior for some terrorist related charges. But at this point, its all hearsay.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

CBC already noted the two brothers reportedly went to Syria to fight. So it seems that belief is likely correct, CC.

Yeah, I'm just catching up, I've been really sick for most of the day.

Border controls are really going to change in Europe because of this.

[fulham]

If your willing to kill for your religion, start with yourself