2015 NFL Playoff thread

[Senator Clay Davis]

Pittsburgh are still the NFL's greatest beneficiaries of ref assistance. The big 4 are the Steelers, Cowboys, Patriots and Packers.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Pittsburgh are still the NFL's greatest beneficiaries of ref assistance. The big 4 are the Steelers, Cowboys, Patriots and Packers.

The Giants have it pretty good, too.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Pittsburgh are still the NFL's greatest beneficiaries of ref assistance. The big 4 are the Steelers, Cowboys, Patriots and Packers.

Ok, its fun to hate on the more popular teams in the NFL and make statements like this, but lets have a look at the facts- none of those 4 teams have been in the top 4 of beneficiary penalty yards in the last 2 years, none of them were bottom 4 this year in penalties against. New England was actually a lousy 29th this year in beneficiary yards, and 3rd in penalties against. Pitt was 22nd this year in beneficiary penalty yards and 12th in penalties against. Green bay was a little more on the positive side in both categories this year, while Dallas was middle of the pack.

Anyway, I could go on with a more in depth, expanded look at the stats, but the point is the facts don't really back up your statement.

[Senator Clay Davis]

It's more than just the net yards from calls, it's when the calls happen and the impact those calls have on the game. The non-penalties yesterday were potential game savers for the Cowboys,; assume the PI only and it's on Dallas 29 with Detroit having already gone 70 yards down the field. Add the should have been called Dez penalty and it's inside the 15. Rest of the game plays out completely differently, and a TD is a 10 point game with likely under 3 minutes left. Pretty much over.

I also should have thrown in the Peyton teams and yes the Giants as well. Four of those teams have the most powerful owners in the game (NE, DAL, NYG, PIT), so I don't think it's overly surprising to see them benefit from calls a lot. Since these are the marquee NFL teams, they are on primetime a lot so you get to see them a lot, and you see them getting key calls (and perhaps more importantly, non-calls) a lot. This is where the eye test beats the stats, stats can't tell you a ticky tacky defensive holding call on 3rd and 14 gave New England a first down, the same call the Browns or Vikings will never get.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Ok, its fun to hate on the more popular teams in the NFL and make statements like this, but lets have a look at the facts- none of those 4 teams have been in the top 4 of beneficiary penalty yards in the last 2 years, none of them were bottom 4 this year in penalties against. New England was actually a lousy 29th this year in beneficiary yards, and 3rd in penalties against. Pitt was 22nd this year in beneficiary penalty yards and 12th in penalties against. Green bay was a little more on the positive side in both categories this year, while Dallas was middle of the pack.

Anyway, I could go on with a more in depth, expanded look at the stats, but the point is the facts don't really back up your statement.

One of them was gift wrapped Super Bowl 40

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

I think the Dez thing would be discretionary, obviously depending what he said.

I still think it was indeed defensive PI (as I've previously said numerous times), but I also think that facemask was not minimal from watching the replay. Offsetting penalties still, IMO. The holding is a different story.

Who cares what he said. A WR running on the field with no helmet to argue a call when his defense is on the field is the only thing I need to know. That should have easily been a flag.

The Lions lost that game all on their own, but it would suck to be a Lions fan and have to deal with watching that.

[JD]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

The Lions lost that game all on their own, but it would suck to be a Lions fan and have to deal with watching that.

Trust me, it sucks to be a Lions fan anyway, despite having watched that.

The call/no-call thing is infuriating, but it's besides the point. The Lions made too many mistakes down the stretch. Bad penalties, and, in particular, that 3rd and short where Stafford went up the seam to Tate.... that was the wrong call. Toss it into the flats or hand it to Joique and get the 1st. There is no need to go for the kill shot like that. You needed to run the clock and get any kind of score.

I've been frustrated with playcalling like that all year. The Lions are talented team and will beat a lot of NFL teams just from that, but they are still not playing winning football. They don't have their minds "in the moment" for the big moments of games quite often. Before Sunday, I completely expected them to lose this game, but man am I disappointed because of the way it ended up playing out. They played such a great first half and just lost their minds in the 2nd. But as I've seen on twitter a lot, Lions gonna Lion. And they did. Same old Lions. Well, maybe not exactly the same. The disappointment is the same.

Hopefully next year they can learn from this and take the next step. First play of the off-season, gotta sign Suh. Try to get Fairley back too... when he went down, that d-line lost a lot of bite, believe it or not. It was just ferocious early in the season. In the end, it was effective, and Ansah grew a lot, but with Fairley in, it's a different beast.

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Who cares what he said. A WR running on the field with no helmet to argue a call when his defense is on the field is the only thing I need to know. That should have easily been a flag.

The Lions lost that game all on their own, but it would suck to be a Lions fan and have to deal with watching that.

That's the discretionary part. The ref would care what he said and choose his actions, if any, accordingly.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Don't read Lions fans...

[JD]

Maybe the NFL was just trying to save us from having to watch an embarrassing throttling at the hands of the Seahawks? I mean, who wants to watch Suh chase Russell Wilson around for an afternoon? Thanks Rog! Thanks for looking out for us!

[Jason14h]

Oh no! A missed holding call! That only happens 10 times per team per game!

Maybe Caldwell should grow a pair and go for it on 4th and 1 from your opponents side of the field. Pitts, Balt and Dallas all went for 4th and 1 in their games from worst field position.

Maybe if Stafford wasn't Cutler with better PR and their coach wasn't one of the 5 worst in the league they would have won the game.

And saying NE, Pitts, GB, Dallas and Manning team all get the better calls from the refs?

You basically picked every good team over the past 5 years minus Baltimore (I'm sure you just forgot with your Ravens hatred) and Seattle (Who commit 2 penalties on every play and get away with it!)

Maybe good teams with good players get calls because they are better then the other team and cause them to commit penalties and are good because they don't?

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah you could easily watch that game and grab lots of missed calls, happens both ways.

What about the missed roughing the kicker call that happened right after a Lions drive was extended because of a roughing the kicker call?

That could have easily changed the game too.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I don't hate the Ravens, I hate the murderer. He's gone so nothing to hate any more. It's funny cause had the Ravens lost Saturday and say Jason Worilds had 5 sacks and broke Flacco's neck after he should have been tossed for throwing a punch, you'd be up in arms about the NFL's favouritism to the Steelers. You could be doing it by Saturday Night too if New England gets some calls. Anyone who has watched enough NFL football knows certain teams get favourable calls. Its disingenuous to say otherwise, or it's blindly ignore it, whichever you'd prefer.

And you make the critical mistake in your last line. Seahawks have led the league two years in a row in penalties. It's not the number of penalties, its the impact of the penalties. The penalties and non-calls Dallas got Sunday pretty much won them the game. Yeah, Caldwell should have gone, but he also should have had 1st and 10 on the 14 yard line.

I'm glad some people are happy the NFL is turning into the NBA, but some of us would rather not.

Edit: It was running into the kicker for Detroit, not roughing, so it wouldn't have been a first down anyways and Dallas would have declined. That play is wholly irrelevant.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Edit: It was running into the kicker for Detroit, not roughing, so it wouldn't have been a first down anyways and Dallas would have declined. That play is wholly irrelevant.

I don't know, there was more contact on that play, then there was on the actual roughing the kicker play that was called.

If you switch the teams in that scenario around and Dallas was the beneficiary of the penalty, and Detroit was the non-call you can bet that it would be another penalty that the "conspiracy" theorists would be pointing to.

[MillerTime GFG]

Ya it's getting kind of ridiculous picking out all the missed calls against Dallas. I could easily go back and cherry-pick a handful of missed calls the other way as well.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The penalty against Dallas wasn't roughing the kicker either! It was 4th and 5 and they ran into the kicker. Detroit got the first down not because it's automatic like roughing the kicker is, but because a 5 yard penalty on a 4th and 5 is a first down through yardage. The "roughing" on the Dallas kicker was a clear case of running into the kicker (all the ref experts agreed...), but it was 4th and 12 (I think) so had the penalty been called the best Dallas can do there is 4th and 7 and a re-punt. So they would have declined it anyways.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

Ya it's getting kind of ridiculous picking out all the missed calls against Dallas. I could easily go back and cherry-pick a handful of missed calls the other way as well.

I'm not picking them out, the NFL admitted to blowing the call. So maybe ask the league office why they keep putting these out, as if it's some comfort to Lions fans.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The penalty against Dallas wasn't roughing the kicker either! It was 4th and 5 and they ran into the kicker. Detroit got the first down not because it's automatic like roughing the kicker is, but because a 5 yard penalty on a 4th and 5 is a first down through yardage. The "roughing" on the Dallas kicker was a clear case of running into the kicker (all the ref experts agreed...), but it was 4th and 12 (I think) so had the penalty been called the best Dallas can do there is 4th and 7 and a re-punt. So they would have declined it anyways.

Could have sworn they said roughing the kicker on the broadcast, my bad.

IMO the fact that it would have been declined is irrelevant, it was still a missed call.

In the end the penalties in the game were even for the same amount of yardage. It wasn't like the Lions were penalized for 100 yards, while the Cowboys had no penalties.

I am sure if you watch the game over you can pick out missed Pass Interference calls, and missed holding calls all over. In the end it just happened at a bad time of a high profile game and that is the reason it is even a story (plus the weird aspect of the penalty being called already).

If I was a Lions fan I would be more pissed off that they only scored 3 points in the second half.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Ok but it was a missed call that would have have no effect on the game. It almost certainly would have been declined, and the result of the play is the same (unless Dallas was going to decide to fake it). With the PI/Holding/Dez play, it pretty clearly had a massive impact on the end result.

Yes, Detroit could have scored more and been further ahead...but that doesn't change the fact that had the correct calls been made on that play, Detroit would have at worst 1st and 10 at the 29, up 20-17, with under 7 minutes left, on a drive that had already gone almost 70 yards. Even if they miss a FG or don't score at all, the end plays out much differently.

And actually the biggest thing driving it now is Blandino being on the Jerry Jones party bus before this season. Kind of, sort of a really horrible look now that the Cowboys have massively benefited from officiating at a crucial time. There's also the fact no refs will be punished at all for this. The NFL needs to seriously address the ref problem (clearly it wasn't the replacements) because it's hurting it's credibility.

[Sylvanfan]

The league should just split into 2 tiers, that way teams like the Chiefs, Lions, Jaguars, Bills could make the playoffs and win a game once in awhile, and the fans could feel happiness.