[Trade] Oilers trade Perron to Pittsburgh for 2015 1st, Klinkhammer

[killer_carlson]

good for Horak. Hopefully he makes a pile of dough over there.

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Don't get me wrong, I understand a huge part of why this has gone so bad for them, is that management did the opposite of what Calgary has done early in their rebuild, and actually (seemingly) encouraged or at least accepted a culture of losing at the Player / Coach level, and that's what they need to correct. But from a management level, a team with as few a wins as they have in this season should not be looking to make trades or player moves that do anything but improve their club a few years down the road, no matter how long they've been at the "rebuild".

A couple thoughts have been bouncing around in my head, and your comments (particularly the above bolded part) helped me formulate them better...

First, though, I should mention that, while perusing this thread, I decided to try and research the overall 'rebuild' from its inception (analysts vary on their accepted start-date, but generally accept that at least some form of 'retooling' has been happening since 2006-2007). Being reminded of both the Nylander and Heatley debacles, I had to stop--it was just so overwhelmingly ridiculous. And that only took me to 2009! Revisiting the Oilers' ongoing circus is fun, yes, but also awkwardly painful; the same schadenfreude-like feeling I get when I watch the David Brent character in The Office...but I digress...

With respect to your bolded comments above, I think the more damaging decision during this whole process has been to continually rush their top prospects into the NHL. This is even more damning when you consider that they haven't eased them in to a roster structured with vets in key positions (much like Cali said in his Game Day overview post about the NYIs).

The Oilers have taken young, inexperienced--but legitimate--NHL prospects and not only asked them to learn the NHL game without a meaningful veteran presence, but have also shoved them into leadership roles and expected them to carry the weight of that as well.

The key difference between the Flames and Oilers to me is that the Flames have done a better job making use of their AHL affiliate over the past few years. Instead of letting some of the young guys develop together in the minors, where they could learn the game, learn to play with each other, and maybe have some success from which they could develop a "winning culture", the Oilers kept each of their top prospects in the NHL (even Draisaitl!) and forced them to stumble their ways into becoming NHL players. Conversely, the Flames have sent players like Byron, Bouma, Granlund, Reinhart, Ferland and even Brodie, Backlund and Baertschi back and forth, in order to have them get their NHL work ethics and overall games in order.

One might argue that the Flames have had a better ability to do this with their young guys because they had a better veteran structure at both the NHL and AHL levels. In response to this, I'd say that's also Oiler management's fault. But more importantly, since they've been losing anyway, why not have had the young guys play in the AHL, bringing them in more gradually, while icing a scrub NHL roster meant to bide time for the infusion of youth? Instead of doing this, they've iced a team that not only loses, but hurts their young players' development. And because their prospects have only lost, they've learned only losing. And because they have been forced to be the leaders on the team, they have no professional experience of winning from which to draw to guide their teammates. And because they're the leaders, it's almost impossible at this point for coaches to reprimand or bench them, because they're pretty much all the Oilers have. This is the foundation of the team and is why they keep losing.

To address today's trade, Perron was a guy who was supposed to fill one of those Hudler-like skilled veteran roles when he was acquired. The team continues to suck, and now he's traded. And like you said, it would be silly for a GM in MacT's situation to not begin the "next year" process. But I think that the frustration expressed here is that this seems to be the only strategy the Oilers know. It goes like this: rush young players into the league, don't help them learn, don't hold them accountable, act shocked when things don't go well, pretend to not be giving up on the season, give up on the season, trade away serviceable players for draft picks, rely on high first round drafting, repeat.

I think it's a legitimate question for posters here and NHL fans in general to ask what level of mismanagement is required before the NHL steps in and at least addresses the continual rewards such mismanagement seems to accrue.

Ultimately, I don't think anything changes until one or more of Hall, Eberle or Yakupov are traded (I think N-H is the only true "untouchable" at this point). The necessary "culture change" will only occur when this happens. And the Oilers have only themselves to blame for ruining prospects that should be helping the team compete for a playoff spot by now.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by Drury18

If Perron gets a 3rd line winger and a 1st round pick, I'm really curious now what the top scorer of a KHL team would net them.

Horak's been tearing up the KHL. I'm actually shocked to see his rights haven't been moved with any of these smaller trades. He actually has some value for them now.

Klinkhammer is more of an ok 4th liner.

Also, I doubt Horak has "decent value" probably somewhere in "4th to 6th" round pick range and it might be conditional.

[Ashasx]

If MacTavish and Lowe eventually turn Edmonton into a playoff team by deliberately sucking for this long, picking 1st overall for four of the last six drafts, it'll be the biggest travesty in all of sport.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Drury18

If Perron gets a 3rd line winger and a 1st round pick, I'm really curious now what the top scorer of a KHL team would net them.

Horak's been tearing up the KHL. I'm actually shocked to see his rights haven't been moved with any of these smaller trades. He actually has some value for them now.

I believe Horak is unsigned, and thus would have to clear waivers to come from the KHL to the NHL this season.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Drury18

If Perron gets a 3rd line winger and a 1st round pick, I'm really curious now what the top scorer of a KHL team would net them.

Horak's been tearing up the KHL. I'm actually shocked to see his rights haven't been moved with any of these smaller trades. He actually has some value for them now.

He's having a good year in the KHL but I doubt it really changes his value. He's still a borderline NHLer in North America. Tons of plug NHL players go over there and do well.

[Buzzard]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Klinkhammer's been in two trades in about 3 weeks and I'm pretty sure he was included in both just so neither team would adding or subtracting a contract both times.

Yeah, he's no stranger to moving around that's for sure. He played on four major junior teams, and this is his tenth pro team!

[Antithesis]

I'm sure colours seem a little brighter for Perron today. Congratulations to him!

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Totally agree with much if not all of your post drewtastic. I think in respect to this trade specifically, seems as though Perron (and understandably so) was not happy in Edmonton (vicious circle based on what you said, because they need veterans to help their kids like you outlined, but because they are such a poorly run club, they can't keep any vets happy, something Calgary thankfully hasn't struggled with) so he kind of had to be shipped out, and I think the return they got was the right return for a team in their situation.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Mike F

I believe Horak is unsigned, and thus would have to clear waivers to come from the KHL to the NHL this season.

a team could still trade for his rights in order to sign him for next year or so. You know, like the Flames did with Karri Ramo.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Mike F

I believe Horak is unsigned, and thus would have to clear waivers to come from the KHL to the NHL this season.

No waivers if he signs with Edmonton and then traded a day later. They would do he paper transaction to make him an Oiler and then trade him.

13.23 In the event a professional or former professional Player plays in a league outside North America after the start of the NHL Regular Season, other than on Loan from his Club, he may thereafter play in the NHL during that Playing Season (including Playoffs) only if he has first
either cleared or been obtained via Waivers. For the balance of the Playing Season, any such Player who has been obtained via Waivers may be Traded or Loaned only after again clearing Waivers or through Waiver claim. This section shall not apply to a Player on the Reserve List or Restricted Free Agent List of an NHL Club with whom the Player is signing an NHL SPC or is
party to an existing SPC with such NHL Club.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Drury18

No waivers if he signs with Edmonton and then traded a day later. They would do he paper transaction to make him an Oiler and then trade him.

doesn't matter deadline to sign Horak for this season has passed:

11.4 Signing Deadline for Group 2 Free Agent. An SPC for a Group 2 Free Agent will be
rejected and will be null and void ab initio (i.e., the Player's Free Agency and contractual status
shall revert to the status he held prior to signing his SPC), if it is not signed and filed with
Central Registry by 5:00 p.m. New York time on December 1 in the then current NHL Season.

[Walter Reed]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

I'm so looking forward to some dirty laundry being aired out by him. Pleeeease dont let me down Perron. You're getting out of Asscrack, AB....heading to a Stanley Cup contender, playing with some of the best players anywhere. Say something juicy for us!

Heard an interview with Perron, he had nothing but good things to say about Edmonton. That said I would imagine he's happy to be going to a competitive team.

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Totally agree with much if not all of your post drewtastic. I think in respect to this trade specifically, seems as though Perron (and understandably so) was not happy in Edmonton (vicious circle based on what you said, because they need veterans to help their kids like you outlined, but because they are such a poorly run club, they can't keep any vets happy, something Calgary thankfully hasn't struggled with) so he kind of had to be shipped out, and I think the return they got was the right return for a team in their situation.

Completely agree and, if it weren't for the fact that this type of asset management is what they were supposed to have been doing all along, I'd give them some credit today...

But I can't, because the Oilers are...oh, shucks, I had it there and then I just lost it...maybe Reggie D can help me out here...?

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

doesn't matter deadline to sign Horak for this season has passed:

That saddest part is every year I forget about this rule.

I can remember other obscure things from the CBA, but I always forget this one.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Perron allegedly asked to be traded so I give him props for wanting to go to a real team and not just collect a cheque while getting top 6 minutes. That's the type of player I'm looking at acquiring if I am the Penguins.

I was wondering if this was the result of a trade demand. The timing certainly suggested it.

[Aeneas]

Originally Posted by Drury18

That saddest part is every year I forget about this rule.

I can remember other obscure things from the CBA, but I always forget this one.

Better dust off your copy and re read.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Totally agree with much if not all of your post drewtastic. I think in respect to this trade specifically, seems as though Perron (and understandably so) was not happy in Edmonton (vicious circle based on what you said, because they need veterans to help their kids like you outlined, but because they are such a poorly run club, they can't keep any vets happy, something Calgary thankfully hasn't struggled with) so he kind of had to be shipped out, and I think the return they got was the right return for a team in their situation.

So Mac T should have been after one of the young Penguins D men, does the 1st rounder have more value then Dumoulin or Harrington?

[FlamesAddiction]

Great trade for the Coil.

Although it is worth mentioning that this isn't just a rental player for Pittsburgh, Perron is signed for another season and is only 26. He should easily be on pace for 20-30 goals at least over a full season playing on that team. For those thinking we should have offered up Glencross for a similar deal, I really doubt Pittsburgh would have gone for it.

Maybe closer to the deadline when the contenders feel more comfortable, his value will be there as a rental.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

So Mac T should have been after one of the young Penguins D men, does the 1st rounder have more value then Dumoulin or Harrington?

The Penguins had a say in what they were willing to part with in this trade. It's all nice and good to say what MacT should have turned this into but it's all speculative. Based on trade histories, player values, Edmonton's situation, MacT got really good value for Perron. Discussing on whether he should or more importantly COULD have gotten Dumoulin or Harrington is fruitless.