Devin Setoguchi

[edslunch]

It still begs the question of why sign him in the first place. There's a chance he turns out ok and a much much smaller chance that he is part of the future so it's not like there's a compelling reason to go out and get him vs. picking up waiver wire filler in the off chance that none of the kids are ready. If he doesn't have to do anything to make the team then you're essentially fixing your roster in July which seems counter to the nothing given always earned credo. But his horse is pretty dead by now.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by edslunch

It still begs the question of why sign him in the first place. There's a chance he turns out ok and a much much smaller chance that he is part of the future so it's not like there's a compelling reason to go out and get him vs. picking up waiver wire filler in the off chance that none of the kids are ready. If he doesn't have to do anything to make the team then you're essentially fixing your roster in July which seems counter to the nothing given always earned credo. But his horse is pretty dead by now.

I don't get this sentiment - why do people think that the roster will be static throughout the season?

Whatever the opening night roster is, that same roster will probably re-appear no more than one or two more times during the entire season.

If Setoguchi hasn't gotten it going by 15 or 20 games into the season, he'll be in the press box or gone.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't get this sentiment - why do people think that the roster will be static throughout the season?

Whatever the opening night roster is, that same roster will probably re-appear no more than one or two more times during the entire season.

If Setoguchi hasn't gotten it going by 15 or 20 games into the season, he'll be in the press box or gone.

The problem is that he shouldnt be there if he hasn't earned it (and he hasn't). Max Reinhart didnt have a great camp and didnt earn his spot and got sent down. Why should a new guy that has never played with the organization before also not earn his spot with a bad training camp and play on the starting roster? It sends a bad message to the young guys and probably frustrates the hell out of them knowing that even if they outplay the veteran players, they still have to go play in the AHL.

It shows that this "meritocracy" thing was just a buzz word and nothing but BS from the new management (again).

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by edslunch

It still begs the question of why sign him in the first place. There's a chance he turns out ok and a much much smaller chance that he is part of the future so it's not like there's a compelling reason to go out and get him vs. picking up waiver wire filler in the off chance that none of the kids are ready. If he doesn't have to do anything to make the team then you're essentially fixing your roster in July which seems counter to the nothing given always earned credo. But his horse is pretty dead by now.

There's also the chance that he regains his ability to score goals and play physical alongside someone like Gaudreau.

Regardless of how Seto turns out, Treliving already said why these players were brought in. To create competition in training camp and make prospects earn their spot. He didn't go out and say how amazing a deal he got on Setoguchi and that we'll all be impressed by him.

If he can't play NHL hockey anymore then they won't hesitate to send him down.

Did Treliving spend your money signing this contract? It's not like they have to worry about cap space.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

There's also the chance that he regains his ability to score goals and play physical alongside someone like Gaudreau.

Regardless of how Seto turns out, Treliving already said why these players were brought in. To create competition in training camp and make prospects earn their spot. He didn't go out and say how amazing a deal he got on Setoguchi and that we'll all be impressed by him.

If he can't play NHL hockey anymore then they won't hesitate to send him down.

Did Treliving spend your money signing this contract? It's not like they have to worry about cap space.

What does it take for a prospect to earn their spot then? A fair number of posters believe that several prospects have in fact out played him. But then there's yeah but he's a vet and building towards the season, he deserves a stretch of real games to evaluate, etc., which I get, but how in hell were prospects supposed to win spots which is what the team said they could do?

And yes I know there are always injury call ups and deadline deals to shed vets but that's different than winning a spot on the roster.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by edslunch

What does it take for a prospect to earn their spot then? A fair number of posters believe that several prospects have in fact out played him. But then there's yeah but he's a vet and building towards the season, he deserves a stretch of real games to evaluate, etc., which I get, but how in hell were prospects supposed to win spots which is what the team said they could do?

And yes I know there are always injury call ups and deadline deals to shed vets but that's different than winning a spot on the roster.

Again, it's not static. Winning a spot might mean opening night, but it could also mean 20 or 40 or 60 games into the season.

The whole world will not be decided on Oct 8th.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Again, it's not static. Winning a spot might mean opening night, but it could also mean 20 or 40 or 60 games into the season.

The whole world will not be decided on Oct 8th.

I do understand that, but do you understand where my confusion is coming from when the GM says nothing is decided, there are spots open, this is the most competitive camp ever.....but then by all appearances the vets are exempted from that competition? Unless I'm mistaken there is pretty much no precedent for a prospect taking a job away from a vet mid season on this team so I'm a bit jaded towards that possibility.

Mostly, though, I'm just whinging because I want some exciting players to cheer for, particularly opening night when I have tickets

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I do understand that, but do you understand where my confusion is coming from when the GM says nothing is decided, there are spots open, this is the most competitive camp ever.....but then by all appearances the vets are exempted from that competition? Unless I'm mistaken there is pretty much no precedent for a prospect taking a job away from a vet mid season on this team so I'm a bit jaded towards that possibility.

Mostly, though, I'm just whinging because I want some exciting players to cheer for, particularly opening night when I have tickets

But they're not exempt. It will take a little more than a couple pre-season games to see if Setoguchi can resurrect his career. That doesn't make him exempt from the process.

Nor does sending a prospect to Addy mean they didn't make the team - the games in Addy are a continuation of their tryouts.

And I totally agree about wanting to see exciting players here. As a STH, I want to see Gaudreau, Baertschi and Bennett all year. But as a future STH, I also want what's best for them and the team long-term.

Frustrating right now, but lots to be excited about going forward.

[hurtin_albertan]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I do understand that, but do you understand where my confusion is coming from when the GM says nothing is decided, there are spots open, this is the most competitive camp ever.....but then by all appearances the vets are exempted from that competition? Unless I'm mistaken there is pretty much no precedent for a prospect taking a job away from a vet mid season on this team so I'm a bit jaded towards that possibility.

Mostly, though, I'm just whinging because I want some exciting players to cheer for, particularly opening night when I have tickets

I would counter by asking you which of the cuts can you honestly say deserved to stay in camp over Setoguchi? Not earning your spot/having a bad camp = not ready, and being sent to the AHL is an opportunity to continue improving and learning as much as it is a demotion. The Flames have plenty to gain by sending Reinhart for example down over somebody like Setoguchi.

Now, if there was a prospect in camp this year that absolutely blew the doors off and was by all accounts deserving of an opening night roster spot (i.e. Monahan last year) and Setoguchi took that spot, then I would tend to agree with your post. However that hasn't happened to this point, and may not at all as even of the biggest prospect names left in camp (Bennett, Gadreau, Baertschi) haven't completely cemented their spots either.

Patience is a virtue my friend.

[Dajazz]

Might be that a prospect outplayed a veteran, but is better served by additional development in junior or Ahl.

Short term yea, might outperform Setoguchi and we get an additional 2 pts this season.

But what if long term the prospect develops even more?

No doubt there are better players in the system, but maybe they can be "better than better" one year from now.

I get the meritocracy argument, but what else can mgmt say?

[FlamesAddiction]

Re: "Meritocracy", whether people like it or not, past accomplishments warrant some merit as well. How players do in a short training camp window is not, and should not be the only factor.

Also, I think "meritocracy" is the new "intellectual honesty". It's being way overused and shouldn't be dwelled upon.