[News] Kevin Hayes signs with the Rangers

[Redlan]

Some are comparing this situation to Erixon, which it is not. Erixon was reentering the draft and would have improved his draft position, most likely into the top 10. A prospect and two 2nd round picks made up for the 2nd the Flames would have had and was a premium to ensure the Rangers got the asset without using a first round pick. As pointed out earlier it is not comparable to Knight either.

What I immediately thought, it will be interesting to see how Jankowski progresses and if new management believes a second is compensation when that time comes.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by saXon

Everyone saying Flames fans were just paranoid that Johnny wouldn't sign is a little short sighted. We as fans had a right to be nervous. There was merit there. These decisions are becoming much more common.

no they are not. It's not becoming "much more common" if there haven't even been five cases over the last few years. People are all shivery because of Schultz and Erixon whose situations can neither be compared to Gaudreaus situation nor to Hayes' situation.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What was the latest on Stephen Johns - did he sign with the Hawks? I'd almost prefer him over Hayes.

they signed him to a 2 year ELC a few days ago

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Jesus, that's a 5x5 Rubiks cube in just over 1 min.

#HockeyIQ

I was expecting Pinhead to spawn after the first one.

[TheDebaser]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

I hope you guys are right and he is implying that he wants to play in the NHL with Bill and John...but I really doubt thats what he meant.

The fact that he did this the day that he decided not to sign with Chicago makes the implication stronger imo. He's a college guy who's two best friends just went to Calgary and he totally has the option to go there too. I really think he wants to sign here and keep playing with his buddies.

I think he doesn't want to break up the #trio. I see where you're coming from, but I really just think that there's more reason to think that he was implying something than not.

I guess we'll wait and see.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What was the latest on Stephen Johns - did he sign with the Hawks? I'd almost prefer him over Hayes.

Johns is playing for the IceHogs right now. Holy crap is that kid good. I got to see his first two pro games and he's extremely mobile and smart for a big guy.

No chance the Blackhawks trade him, even though I'd love the Flames to get him.

[saXon]

Originally Posted by devo22

no they are not. It's not becoming "much more common" if there haven't even been five cases over the last few years. People are all shivery because of Schultz and Erixon whose situations can neither be compared to Gaudreaus situation nor to Hayes' situation.

they signed him to a 2 year ELC a few days ago

Wheeler, Schultz, Erixon, Knight, and now Hayes. In such a short period of time. That's considered 'becoming more common'. It's trending towards a realistic option for NCAA players. That in itself speaks volumes.

If you don't agree, that's fine. Agree to disagree. It's still the reason Flames fans were paranoid over the situation, even if it was on differentiating levels of paranoid.

[devo22]

Players who used the "Schultz loophole" (going to NCAA a year late and become UFA after 3 NCAA years):

Blake Wheeler in 2008
Jason Gregoire in 2011
Blake Kessel in 2011
Justin Schultz in 2012

Players who didn't want to sign with their clubs and had their rights traded:

Bill Sweatt in 2010
Tim Erixon in 2011
Corban Knight in 2013

so that's 7 players in 7 years (that I'm aware of) plus Hayes ... how many draft picks have signed with the team that drafted them during the same time frame? Must be a few hundred I'm sure. Still don't see how this has become more common or a problem. Those players are the exception, not the rule.

Plus I still don't get the Gaudreau paranoia ... as in "what were people anxious about exactly?". He could neither use the Schultz loophole nor turn UFA within the next 16 months.

[saXon]

Originally Posted by devo22

Players who used the "Schultz loophole" (going to NCAA a year late and become UFA after 3 NCAA years):

Blake Wheeler in 2008
Jason Gregoire in 2011
Blake Kessel in 2011
Justin Schultz in 2012

Players who didn't want to sign with their clubs and had their rights traded:

Bill Sweatt in 2010
Tim Erixon in 2011
Corban Knight in 2013

so that's 7 players in 7 years (that I'm aware of) plus Hayes ... how many draft picks have signed with the team that drafted them during the same time frame? Must be a few hundred I'm sure. Still don't see how this has become more common or a problem. Those players are the exception, not the rule.

Plus I still don't get the Gaudreau paranoia ... as in "what were people anxious about exactly?". He could neither use the Schultz loophole nor turn UFA within the next 16 months.

I'm not going to get into a discussion of semantics on who or how many people were anxious about Johnny opting to take his final year of college and walk to FA on Aug 15, 2015. It was blatantly obvious all over all facets of fan forums, media, and hockey outlets. It was a household discussion here on CP for the last week, and in spots over the last 2 years.

As for the problem, you've provided a nice sample size to the problem (3 of which chose not to sign with their club in 2011). One a year is a trending problem, enough to provide reactionary response, regardless of % of college athletes that choose to do so. It doesn't negate the fact that the option is becoming more glaringly obvious to both the player and the clubs that draft them.

Agree to disagree, I'm not going to change your mind, nor will you change mine. Different perspectives.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Hey saXon I think you and devo are simply disagreeing on the wording. You said "much more common" and I think devo is trying to say its becoming slightly more common, ie 7 in 7 years..

/argument

Now back on topic please. Kevin Hayes

[Critter4223]

Besides the money it costs the organization it's a safe bet. If you can sign a player who was a 1st round pick it's a no brainer. Take a look at him and hopefully the chemistry he had in college continues into the big league

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

[Miniac]

So bidding war between CGY and FLA and deal his rights at the draft?

[ForeverFlameFan]

MMF already helped me out on this one a while back ... I wouldn't mind having him because of his RW and size. But getting him to just bring back the BC line isn't a good idea, which is also why I prefer Bill and Johnny split up Sunday.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

MMF already helped me out on this one a while back ... I wouldn't mind having him because of his RW and size. But getting him to just bring back the BC line isn't a good idea, which is also why I prefer Bill and Johnny split up Sunday.

You want Johnny and Billy to be as comfortable as possible tomorrow. There are 40 games and several practices with chemistry it is a no brainer to play them together tomorrow. As for Hayes if they are all on the Heat next year I have no problem with the line being kept together.

You want your team to be tight knit I see no problem signing this kid because he has close relationships with 2 of our players. He has size and is a RW so most importantly he fills an organizational need.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I always think drafted players that choose not to sign with their teams are a bit underhanded, for whatever the reason.

Still, this is a business, and they are simply treating it as such. I would find it difficult to believe that Hayes would get as good of an opportunity in Chicago as he could on a few other teams in the NHL. This translates into a heck of a lot more money on his second contract if he makes good on that opportunity.

For those that are unfamiliar with the Hayes situation in Boston, he is simply not just a product of Gaudreau and Arnold. I think they are all a product of one another - that line had really awesome synergy. Obviously, Gaudreau stirred the drink there, but at the same time you can not easily replace Arnold or Hayes on that line with just anyone, and expect that level of dominance.

Gaudreau - I am sure everyone and their dog here knows Gaudreau.

Arnold - he was the defensive-minded catalyst on that team - was very good at backchecking and causing turnovers. Was a shot blocking phenom by the looks of it (fits right in with Calgary). Was a very good 2-way player in the NCAA (I would say the best, actually). I think he is so very underrated on this board and every other board that mentions him (or fails to do so) because his game so perfect translates into the NHL. Anyways, enough about Arnold..

Hayes - Everyone points that he was on Gaudreau and Arnold's line, and was a passenger on that line, citing he was not that 'great' until then. He was actually a very good player in the NCAA, and developing quite nicely. As others have mentioned - 6'4". Uses his body well. He was having a career year apparently BEFORE York finally relented to Gaudreau's and Arnold's pleads to make them a line. York didn't (and refused for a while) because Hayes was carrying the 2nd line, and he York didn't want to put all his eggs in one basket. What is Hayes on that line? He was a guy that made a lot of room for Gaudreau. Defensively responsible (though not at Arnold's level) but a very good finisher AND a very good distributor of the puck. He was the perfect fit on that line, and those three players fed off of one another so well.

Hayes is a legitimately good prospect. I would say he is worth a late 1st right now - maybe even a mid-round 1st. I say mid-round 1st because I do think he is going to be a legitimate NHL'er - maybe not a guy that can carry a '2nd line' at that level, but a very competent, big-bodied presence that does everything fairly well, and who is a very good skater. Probably a guy who at his prime is going to top out at around 15 goals and 40pts, but a guy that is tough to play against and is a defensively responsible presence. I wouldn't want the Flames to pay that, and I don't think Chicago is going to receive a better offer than the compensatory pick really - it isn't going to be an NHL-wide auction. They trade him only if a team beats out that 2nd round compensatory pick or trades a prospect that holds value to Chicago.

I would like to feel sorry for Chicago at this point - but ever since the last time the Flames and Hawks played in the playoffs and apparently chirped Iginla, plus the chirping of Brendan Morrisson when he was hurt, plus the chirping of Thornton in Boston when he was hurt and bleeding... I really have to enjoy this, sorry! Hahaha!

Calgary, Florida and Boston are probably the 3 teams he is most wanting to join at this time - each with their own valid reasons. He is from Boston, and played the last 4 years in Boston - don't discount them.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

MMF already helped me out on this one a while back ... I wouldn't mind having him because of his RW and size. But getting him to just bring back the BC line isn't a good idea, which is also why I prefer Bill and Johnny split up Sunday.

Bill and Johnny together tomorrow is basically just two buddies playing in their first NHL games together, nothing more. Realistically Arnold and Hayes are more likely to stay together than with Gaudreau. Even if none of them are playing on the same line, it has to help a massive amount with the culture shock and transition if they're still in the same locker room and rooming in hotels, etc. Very shrewd move by Hartley.

[Bingo]

I wish college players could ...

a) sign during their college days but not accept money
b) go back into the draft while in college after two years if they haven't signed

would equalize things a bit ... they wouldn't fully develop and then have so much leverage.

[Caged Great]

I would give the Av's + a minor prospect for him (someone like Ferland)

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I would give the Av's + a minor prospect for him (someone like Ferland)

Ferland is something this organization doesn't have a lot of. I wouldn't trade him.

[ForeverFlameFan]

If those two get paired up, I would love the Big Ern on the RW.

[goodyear]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I wish college players could ...

a) sign during their college days but not accept money
b) go back into the draft while in college after two years if they haven't signed

would equalize things a bit ... they wouldn't fully develop and then have so much leverage.

Sorry I didn't read through the whole thread, but in case it hasn't been discussed, I would advocate that if NCAA players are drafted, their college eligibility is over, just like the NBA and NFL.

If an underclassmen should declare for the draft, they would be going pro in the season after the draft. Although, this would create a headache with USHL or US High School players that choose to attend college.

This may create a situation where there will be players of different ages are drafted but IMO, I think that would work better for the players and teams involved.