[News] Flames scratch Sven...again

[Miniac]

Its a rebuild and Hartley needs to be more patient this season.

[Poe969]

Harley needs to go....I think the team would benefit from letting the fans be the coach on a rotating basis.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Dion

Fans and management have built up too high of an expectation for Svend. His great sucess during his emergency call up of a few years back was the worst thing that could have happened. Fans think he is going to be a superstar and look at the coaching staff and management as scapegoats when expectations are not being realised. He shouldn't be benched, he's not getting enough minutes or he's not playing with the right players.

Over the years a lot of highly touted players struggled when they reached the NHL level. A few even fizzled out and never lived up to thier billing and disappeared from the game. In many cases they couldn't elevate thier game to the pro level.

It's my opinion that Svend is having a real hard time adapting to the pro level. It's not like the emergency call up when opposition teams didn't know much about the kid and he could do what he wanted. Things have changed and teams are aware of Svend making it harder for him to produce at the pro level. His size and how easily he is knocked off the puck is hurting him right now. He needs to bulk up more to compensate for his lack of size. He also needs to get tougher mentally so he can better handle the frustrations of his game. Not get down on himself when things are not going well and use that as motivation to work harder. Right now he's too fragile when it comes to his confidence and that needs to change in a hurry.

Since when is his name spelled Svend? If it is, you should inform the Calgary Flames who have his name listed as Sven http://flames.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8476466

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

I'm not a GM, scout, coach, or anything. My hockey experience consists of high-level minor hockey.

But, I want to ask if I am the only who sees Baertschi looking good in all 3 zones when he plays.

I mean, he's not Monahan on the back check or Backlund on the forecheck but he is certainly skating really hard every shift and in every zone, unlike Glencross.

From everything I've seen, I would say he's been giving a good effort about 75% of the time, but also gets knocked off the puck pretty easily. Even if his effort was 100% of the time, he's too soft on the puck.

He needs to learn while he can be taught. People compare him to Iginla and his lack of defensive zone prowess, but Sven is a rookie in the learning stages, Iginla was a 30 year old Captain. Different approaches must be had. I'd much rather they develop Sven slowly rather than throw him out there and just give him minutes and hope he does fine.

Sitting is part of the learning process for rookies. However, as usual, this equates to the Flames destroying the flair and confidence of our next superstar.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Harley needs to go....I think the team would benefit from letting the fans be the coach on a rotating basis.

So does Burke and Murray Edwards..... whip this whole organization into place and start playing hockey like ......

[saillias]

I look at it this way... Boston regularly scratched and scratches players like Seguin, Hamilton. I'd rather emulate their strategy than the Edmonton strategy. Act like a winner, even if we aren't one yet.

[Miniac]

Originally Posted by saillias

I look at it this way... Boston regularly scratched and scratches players like Seguin, Hamilton. I'd rather emulate their strategy than the Edmonton strategy. Act like a winner, even if we aren't one yet.

Along with many other reasons

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by saillias

Act like a winner, even if we aren't one yet.

That's a big point with me. Just because we're rebuilding doesn't automatically entitle our rookies and younger players/prospects to quality ice time game in and game out if they haven't earned it. Guys will get their chances with consistently solid play and/or injuries but I don't agree at all with some of the "trade/bench such and such veterans so we can get all these rookies and prospects into the lineup ASAP" sentiment I see around here.

Sven has shown flashes of solid offensive play here and there and has had some good games. But there have been some bad games and inconsistency as well.

Except for a handful of well established NHL players, if you aren't scoring goals then you better be contributing in other ways, which Sven for the most part has not been. Still gets bumped off the puck easily and is still sometimes iffy in our own end. Biggest thing with him is rounding out his game and finding consistency and I think that's why he's getting scratched right now.

I'm sure we'll see him again soon and IIRC he came back from his earlier scratch with a pretty good game. Some players bounce around a little between the AHL, NHL, pressbox, etc, before they fully establish themselves (like Brodie). Hopefully this is the case for Sven as well.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

I'm not a GM, scout, coach, or anything. My hockey experience consists of high-level minor hockey.

But, I want to ask if I am the only who sees Baertschi looking good in all 3 zones when he plays.

I mean, he's not Monahan on the back check or Backlund on the forecheck but he is certainly skating really hard every shift and in every zone, unlike Glencross.

No you're not.

I think he has been good in all three zones - at times.

I think the effort has been there in spades. I think he has been trying very hard to be better defensively - maybe too hard, to the detriment of his offensive game?

For the most part, I think he has been vey good this season. But he has also been weak on the puck at times. And he has been hesitant to shoot.

He has been far from perfect. But IMO, the effort has been excellent.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by Miniac

Along with many other reasons

His face and the caption go quite well together actually

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Miniac

Along with many other reasons

Originally Posted by FlamesAllTheWay

His face and the caption go quite well together actually

"I missed eggs benny?.... damn."

[Stay Golden]

Hartley is 0-2 for wins when he has scratched Sven. It is too bad he ix not realizing the chemistry Monahan, Hudler has with him. I didn't think any on ice reasons should have caused Sven to be in the pressbox.

[BigFlameDog]

The problem is we do not watch every second of every shift, we don't analyze his rights and wrongs and we do not know his exact responsibilities in any zone. We don't know how many times he has been corrected...maybe he's dumber than a stick, we don't know if he missed a breakfast and the team just doesn't want that public....we don't know if he is actually giving his all and if his energy is in the right place.

You can substitute the word he above with any young player...any player for that matter.

Fact is a rookie/youngster getting scratched is way more common than the Monahan example.

I don't even have a problem with fans being upset about it but some of us just can't stop beating the dead horse about things and it friggin kills threads....smart dudes repeating the same complaint over, and over, and over.

[Dion]

Hartley on Svend

“Every time we sit Sven, it’s like the world is ending in Calgary,” Hartley said after Tuesday’s morning skate ahead of their game against the Minnesota Wild.

When asked about it on Tuesday, Hartley said the Flames’ coaching staff was going to have a video session with Baertschi to show him where improvements are needed.

“That’s part of his challenge,” Hartley said. “Mental toughness is, unfortunately, a big part of this deal. This is a business for men. This is the best hockey league in the world. No one puts a gun to our head to be in the NHL. It’s a privilege to be in the National Hockey League. The day you steal a jersey, the day you get a coaching job in the NHL, it’s a very good day. But the next second, somebody else is wanting your job. Everybody wants to be in the NHL. It’s a day-to-day battle. You have to accept the facts and you have to accept the risks.”

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...983/story.html

[SuperMatt18]

Let's not forget that Sven got himself into this situation.

Hartley and him had worked hard at the end of last season and his game was really developing and coming along. Culminating with 7 points in 7 games to end the season.

Then he pouted that he had to go to development camp even since he was right on the 25 game limit and felt he didn't need to attend.

He also followed that up with an uninspired prospect camp, and a lackluster training camp.

Had he showed up to work from day one this season I have a feeling he wouldn't be getting the tough love he is getting right now. Instead he came to camp with almost a sense of entitlement and this is where it got him.

[Poe969]

Who's going to sit down with Hartley and show him the scores. It shouldn't take long, just sit down and go over the Flames record and the results on the ice. Myabe he should not coach a few games so the Flames can paly without a coach and he can watch to see what shoudl be done and shouldn't be done

[Rerun]

Company XYZ gets a new VP.

New VP moves into his new office and one of the first words out of his mouth is that he doesn’t like one of the employees.

New VP then goes on to publically call out one of the 1st year employees saying he’s lazy, doesn’t work hard enough, and doesn’t do all the jobs that he’s expected to do.
Everybody in the company puts two and two together and has a pretty good idea who the employee is that the new VP doesn’t like.

Said 1st year, 21 year old, employee is told, by his immediate boss, not to bother coming into work today… not once but twice. He’s told it’s for his own good and to think of it as a learning experience.

Said 1st year employee is confused and disheartened. He thinks, and many of his fellow employees think, that he’s been doing a pretty good job and they don’t understand why he’s being picked on especially when the job he’s been doing is much better than the job his replacement can ever hope to do.


Then there’s this 6 year (30 year old) employee who gets to work with on the top line, gets all the prime accounts, gets called on frequently for special assignments…. But frequently produces quality of work like he doesn’t really care and has lately been making a few bone headed mistakes that has cost the company money.

Nothing happens to this guy…. He gets a pass on everything… as a matter of fact his immediate boss goes out of his way to praise the guy.


Do you really think that treatment like this is going to help the 21 year old 1st year employee? Or is it more likely to destroy what little confidence he has and possibly ruin a promising career?

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Company XYZ gets a new VP.

New VP moves into his new office and one of the first words out of his mouth is that he doesn’t like one of the employees.

New VP then goes on to publically call out one of the 1st year employees saying he’s lazy, doesn’t work hard enough, and doesn’t do all the jobs that he’s expected to do.
Everybody in the company puts two and two together and has a pretty good idea who the employee is that the new VP doesn’t like.

Said 1st year, 21 year old, employee is told, by his immediate boss, not to bother coming into work today… not once but twice. He’s told it’s for his own good and to think of it as a learning experience.

Said 1st year employee is confused and disheartened. He thinks, and many of his fellow employees think, that he’s been doing a pretty good job and they don’t understand why he’s being picked on especially when the job he’s been doing is much better than the job his replacement can ever hope to do.


Then there’s this 6 year (30 year old) employee who gets to work with on the top line, gets all the prime accounts, gets called on frequently for special assignments…. But frequently produces quality of work like he doesn’t really care and has lately been making a few bone headed mistakes that has cost the company money.

Nothing happens to this guy…. He gets a pass on everything… as a matter of fact his immediate boss goes out of his way to praise the guy.


Do you really think that treatment like this is going to help the 21 year old 1st year employee? Or is it more likely to destroy what little confidence he has and possibly ruin a promising career?

I'm not sure, maybe it would hurt that guys confidence, but why are you posting about this in a hockey forum?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Company XYZ gets a new VP.

New VP moves into his new office and one of the first words out of his mouth is that he doesn’t like one of the employees.

New VP then goes on to publically call out one of the 1st year employees saying he’s lazy, doesn’t work hard enough, and doesn’t do all the jobs that he’s expected to do.
Everybody in the company puts two and two together and has a pretty good idea who the employee is that the new VP doesn’t like.

Said 1st year, 21 year old, employee is told, by his immediate boss, not to bother coming into work today… not once but twice. He’s told it’s for his own good and to think of it as a learning experience.

Said 1st year employee is confused and disheartened. He thinks, and many of his fellow employees think, that he’s been doing a pretty good job and they don’t understand why he’s being picked on especially when the job he’s been doing is much better than the job his replacement can ever hope to do.


Then there’s this 6 year (30 year old) employee who gets to work with on the top line, gets all the prime accounts, gets called on frequently for special assignments…. But frequently produces quality of work like he doesn’t really care and has lately been making a few bone headed mistakes that has cost the company money.

Nothing happens to this guy…. He gets a pass on everything… as a matter of fact his immediate boss goes out of his way to praise the guy.


Do you really think that treatment like this is going to help the 21 year old 1st year employee? Or is it more likely to destroy what little confidence he has and possibly ruin a promising career?

Isn't that pretty much every work place?

People with tenure in any office place in N.A. are going to get preferred treatment over a 21 year old new grad. Hell most entry level jobs call for 3 years experience that the 21 year old new grad had no chance of completing.

It doesn't mean that everybody is against the 21 year old new grad. It's just that the 6 year vet has earned more leeway by showing up and performing already for 6 years.

And in this situation it's not like the 21 year old new grad is doing great work. He has shown flashes of brilliance but also had been inconsistent and hasn't been fully dedicated to his job.

Especially during the training seminars that his company sent him to prior to starting his position. He acted like he knew better and had nothing to learn from those seminars.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Let's not forget that Sven got himself into this situation.

Hartley and him had worked hard at the end of last season and his game was really developing and coming along. Culminating with 7 points in 7 games to end the season.

Then he pouted that he had to go to development camp even since he was right on the 25 game limit and felt he didn't need to attend.

He also followed that up with an uninspired prospect camp, and a lackluster training camp.

Had he showed up to work from day one this season I have a feeling he wouldn't be getting the tough love he is getting right now. Instead he came to camp with almost a sense of entitlement and this is where it got him.

What?