Season Kick-off pressers Sept 30. Burke @ 11:45 AM. Feaster @ 1 PM

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You can't give players meaningful minutes if they aren't earning them. End of story. If Sven can't outplay Hudler he shouldn't be ahead of him on the depth chart. The Flames are rebuilding here and part of that is to build a solid team nucleus of young players. You can't have a solid nucleus when players are allowed to freelance and not commit to a team game. There's nothing wrong with what the Flames did after the deadline last year giving the kids lots of ice time but you don't start game 1 of an 82 game NHL season running your team like that.

totally agree..

I want to see Baertschi (and Backlund) get a chance to fail.


Hudler and Stempniak have gotten top-6 minutes and PP time and have failed miserably. When are they going to be called out and told to get better or get out.

Last year Horak and Begin and Comeau and Cervenka got more minutes of Ice-time than Baertschi.

It is not like Baertschi has been awarded top-6 minutes. He has shown more talent in very limited opportunity than anyone in recent history.


As for not ripping it up in exhibition games .... Schremp may be the best exhibition player in the history of the league.

Is there a deeper problem with Baertschi? Was he told to train a certain way and not done it? Came to camp out of shape? at the wrong weight? He got benched in the first game in Penticton. He has not had the red carpet rolled out for him.


I think that the problem with Baertschi is that the Flames loaded up on so many smallish skilled forwards...

What hole did Feaster think that Hudler solve when he signed him as a UFA?

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I can't believe Feaster made that Baertschi comment to the public. What idiocy.

The kid doesn't need anymore constant negativity. The problem is confidence, not skill (or work ethics as a handful believe).

You gotta feel for him.

What constant negativity are you talking about?

IMO This is coaching 101, challenge the kid and see what he has....then they know what they have.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

3) By sending Baertschi down to the AHL, what does he have to prove? The Heat were the best team in the AHL when he was down there. He was a point a game player before the NHL season started, and has basically proven that he is too good for that league. To take the next step he needs to be getting that ice time at the NHL level. 18+ minutes, with numerous oppurtunites on the power play. If he fails well at least he did it in a season we will probably finish last anyways. If he succeeds then we finally have our first legitimate piece for the rebuild. Either way we find out.

Slightly under a point a game in the AHL doesn't mean that you are NHL ready at all. By all accounts Sven didn't actually dominate in the AHL as he had some ups and downs.

I'm all for letting players play through their mistakes but that's a coaching thing and more specific to Hartley to whom I'm not a big fan. I have a problem if one bad game drops Sven from the 1st line to the 4th line but I generally don't have an issue with Sven not being on the first line if he hasn't done anything to prove he should be there. Playing him on the 3rd or 4th line is a waste of time so it's like Burke said the coach has to commit to playing them in top roles and if he can't then the kids should play where they will get the ice time they need. I really don't understand why he needs to be playing in the NHL if he can't show he's ready physically and mentally. There's nothing wrong with bringing kids along slowly like Burke said today.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Is there a deeper problem with Baertschi? Was he told to train a certain way and not done it? Came to camp out of shape? at the wrong weight? He got benched in the first game in Penticton. He has not had the red carpet rolled out for him.


I think that the problem with Baertschi is that the Flames loaded up on so many smallish skilled forwards...

What hole did Feaster think that Hudler solve when he signed him as a UFA?

Nope. He was a top-5 fittest prospect.

[ricardodw]

Baertschi plays in the AHL... Monahan in the OHL

The Flames finish in the bottom 6.


Gone for 2014-15 ... Stajan, Cammalleri, Stempniak, Jackman

In For 2014-15 Monahan, Baertschi, Gaudreau, Jankowski,

I can't figure out why Sieloff is not going back to Junior...

The Flames are basically tanking and preparing the fan base.

Not this year Baertschi. You get one year on your ELC to prove that your 2nd contract should be worth more than the league minimum.

[bubbsy]

jankowski isn't coming to the NHL for another 2 years, maybe 3. And that is if he makes it straight to the NHL (no ahl time) after graduating.

[$ven27]

Can't see Jankowski or Gaudreau being on the team next year. More likely Gaudreau will be in the AHL for most of the year next year unless he just lights it up down there

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

- I really don't like Burke's comments about Baertschi. Keep those thoughts internal, share them with Sven and if he doesn't step his game up, THEN share it with the media to put greater pressure on him.

- They made the right choice with Berra and Sieloff IMO. Both need playing time, not to be the backup or 7th d-man.

- Feel bad for Horak. He is a tweener. He could be in either league as far as I'm concerned. As a greedy #######, I'm glad he's down here in Abby. He looked awesome out there this morning at practice. Fast, strong on the puck.

- Since Derek Smith has cleared waivers, he's got a month to be sent down without having to go through them again. I wonder if that means he'll go down when Breen is fully healthy? I know that scouts are high on Breen. I know that for a fact. The question is, would he clear waivers?

- I don't know what to make of Street making this team. Good for him. He's a great person. Very smart hockey player. I just don't know where he fits.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I can't believe Feaster made that Baertschi comment to the public. What idiocy.

The kid doesn't need anymore constant negativity. The problem is confidence, not skill (or work ethics as a handful believe).

You gotta feel for him.

How do you know the problem is confidence? For everything we are hearing from the team, and everything I interpret from Sven's own public interviews, and everything I've heard non public suggests to me that this kid doesn't lack confidence at all, he's developed a sense of entitlement, and therefore the Flames are dealing with it appropriately.

Regardless of whether I'm right or your right or neither of us are right on what the issue "actually is", the fact that this many folks, as well as Burke now new to the organization are dealing with it this way suggests they likely know what the issue is and have had some experience in dealing with this type of issue in the past. To suggest they haven't already tried to speak to him privately is silly, I'm sure this is not "Step 1" in some sort of escalation process on how to get Sven's head in the right spot. Unfortunately I think they are much further down the ladder in options to how to correct his mindset, and unfortunately the easy and painless things haven't worked yet.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Sounds eerily similar to quotes just before we got rid of St. Louis and Savard.

You're wrong on St. Louis. Coaches praised him for playing well on both sides of the puck, and for his energy and determination. But we had too many smurfs at the time (Fleury, Bure, Millen). St. Louis didn't get traded because his game was one-dimensional; he got traded because Corey fricken' Millen was a more established pro at the time.

Originally Posted by fotze

As long as that assbusting does not include trying to outmuscle guys in his own end I am ok with it, because he will never be that no matter how much he or the Flames might want it.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

He has to compete as hard as Kessel did in Boston when Burke traded 2 firsts adn a 2nd and then signed Kessel to a 5 year 27M deal as a 21 year old???

Kessel had 6.... count them 6 hits in 70 games his last year as a Bruin.


Not that Kessel isn't a great talent he sure as heck does not compete in all 3 zones.

Playing effectively away from the puck doesn't necessarily have anything to do with hits and rubbing guys out. Do you watch international hockey? Haven't you ever wondered why teams full of 'soft' players like the Czechs can completely smother a star-studded Team Canada? Speed, energy, and discipline away from the puck can shut down an opponent better than crushing hits and goal-crease take-downs.

[Bonded]

I don't think it's wrong for Baertschi to be an offensive focused player. Not every player is going to be a defensive stud.

Let him score and his centre play D

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by fotze

Just can't be easy eh? Who was the last star forward developed and drafted by the Flames? Gary Roberts?

While the Stars drafted Iginla I'm not sure they can take any credit for developing him. I'd say it's Iggy.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Slightly under a point a game in the AHL doesn't mean that you are NHL ready at all. By all accounts Sven didn't actually dominate in the AHL as he had some ups and downs.

I'm all for letting players play through their mistakes but that's a coaching thing and more specific to Hartley to whom I'm not a big fan. I have a problem if one bad game drops Sven from the 1st line to the 4th line but I generally don't have an issue with Sven not being on the first line if he hasn't done anything to prove he should be there. Playing him on the 3rd or 4th line is a waste of time so it's like Burke said the coach has to commit to playing them in top roles and if he can't then the kids should play where they will get the ice time they need. I really don't understand why he needs to be playing in the NHL if he can't show he's ready physically and mentally. There's nothing wrong with bringing kids along slowly like Burke said today.

Baertschi was a point per game player during the lock out. His production slipped when he got sent down after the hip injury. During the lockout Heat were in first place, and he was by far the main source of offense. Not to mention Horak with Baertschi was one of the top scorers in the AHL, without he slipped dramtically.

I bolded that comment, and that is basically the point I was trying to make initially I would like to see Baertschi play and be allowed to fail. After about 15-20 games, re-assess where he is at. If he looks out of place (which I don't think he will be based on what I have seen from him in his 25 games with the Flames), then you can send him down with a specific list of things to work on. I also don't think he needs PP1 time and 1st line minutes, but he does need between 15-18 min a game and at least 2nd PP unit.

As for bringing kids slowly, I agree with you, however I just don't see any player on the Flames that is good enough to block him. I also haven't seen anything from last season that tells me he isn't physically/mentally ready for the NHL.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I don't think it's wrong for Baertschi to be an offensive focused player. Not every player is going to be a defensive stud.

Let him score and his centre play D

When did management ask him to play D?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by fotze

Just can't be easy eh? Who was the last star forward developed and drafted by the Flames? Gary Roberts?

Give them a break, it's only been 20 years. This whole strategy of putting skilled prospect on the 3rd/4th line and then demoting them to the farm when they don't get immediate results, has got to work one of these decades.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

Baertschi was a point per game player during the lock out. His production slipped when he got sent down after the hip injury. During the lockout Heat were in first place, and he was by far the main source of offense. Not to mention Horak with Baertschi was one of the top scorers in the AHL, without he slipped dramtically.

I bolded that comment, and that is basically the point I was trying to make initially I would like to see Baertschi play and be allowed to fail. After about 15-20 games, re-assess where he is at. If he looks out of place (which I don't think he will be based on what I have seen from him in his 25 games with the Flames), then you can send him down with a specific list of things to work on. I also don't think he needs PP1 time and 1st line minutes, but he does need between 15-18 min a game and at least 2nd PP unit.

As for bringing kids slowly, I agree with you, however I just don't see any player on the Flames that is good enough to block him. I also haven't seen anything from last season that tells me he isn't physically/mentally ready for the NHL.

As one can tell from my posts, I don't think the issue with Sven has anything to do with the bolded above, I think the Flames are trying very hard to correct an attitude problem that will drastically impact the quality player that Sven becomes if they don't.

However, let's assume that's not the case, I don't understand the logic on the bolded. I actually agree, even if he has the attitude problem I think he does, he's good enough to crack this top 12. But why should that be the determining factor on where he plays? The Flames aren't a contender, so they don't need to roll their best line up every night. The Flames #1 priority in all cases, shouldn't necissarily be giving the fans what they want, and I think we can all agree we'd rather be watching Sven at the Dome this year (me included). What the Flames or any rebuilding team should be doing is what's going to make them the best a few years down the road. So.........if Sven will be a better player this time next year by spending some time with the Heat, even if there is no one on the Flames good enough to block him, isn't that what they should be doing?

[Beatle17]

I just listened to both press conferences and I don't see anywhere that Burke or Feaster threw Sven under the bus. They both commented that he has good skills on offence but needs to work in the other 2 zones. Feaster even commented that the team is working with Sven on dealing with the press etc., and that the team needs his skill (especially while Cammy is out).

They commented that Hartley gave him specific things last year that were required and he worked hard on them and had his point streak.

Maybe its just me, but I think he is just a young guy that needs guidance and the team is giving it to him. He has good work habits and is willing to learn. As Burke said he has seen guys with the same issues become players and that is the only opinion that he gave. The fact that they had these discussions directly with Sven tells me that they are willing to work with him and I think the comments on these boards about his attitude and management throwing him under the bus by bringing this up in the press are way overblown. Neither Burke or Feaster brought up any issues, they were asked a question about Sven. I actually applaud them for dealing with this directly with the player earlier, so the stuff in the press doesn't come as a surprise.

My two cents.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

I love Burke's analogy to farming. So good.

[wingmaker]

Agree with Beatle.

I understand why fans would be alarmed by the comments, but the reaction is way overblown. Other organizations keep high end prospects in the minors for extended periods frequently. The only reason this is a problem is because everyone expected Sven to be a top end player right away. Maybe it's the expectations that are the problem and not the player or how the organization is dealing with him...and Feaster said exactly that.

Relax, Calgarypuck.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You're wrong on St. Louis. Coaches praised him for playing well on both sides of the puck, and for his energy and determination. But we had too many smurfs at the time (Fleury, Bure, Millen). St. Louis didn't get traded because his game was one-dimensional; he got traded because Corey fricken' Millen was a more established pro at the time.

Millen was gone before St. Louis ever played for the Flames. Fleury was traded halfway through St. Louis' first season in Calgary. Brian Sutter used St. Louis on checking lines before he was canned.

St. Louis ultimately chose Tampa Bay because he'd get the most playing time.

This is also interesting, if true.

A few teams expressed interest in St. Louis. He chose to sign with the Tampa Bay Lightning as he believed they were the most likely to give him playing time in the NHL. He made his debut with the team on October 6, 2000. He struggled at first, failing to score a goal in the first six weeks of the season and again found himself out of the lineup at times. Realizing that he was at a career crossroads, St. Louis abandoned the changes to his game that his NHL coaches had impressed on him, trusting his own instincts. He scored his first goal of the season in late November, and finished the season with 18 goals and 40 points – 34 of which came after December 1.