Should/will Bob Hartley be fired in the off season? [EDIT: A conversation from 2013]

[terminator]

surprise surprise, EE is Buzz Killington again.

[Jason14h]

He was a Flames pessimist, which is different than being just generally pessimistic. Almost by default, moon took as low a view as he reasonably could about all things Calgary, and tended to give the benefit of doubt to every other team by comparison (well, except for the Oilers). He was consistently pessimistic about the Flames, and it was odd.

Well is it really that odd to be pessimistic about a team that has made it past the first round ONCE in 25 years? (Before he was banned!)

Not saying it's needed on a Flames message board, but I wouldn't say odd.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What purpose exactly does this post serve? Whether you like them or not Moon and Puckluck aren't here to defend themselves so nice job kicking former posters when they are down and out.

The odds of neither of those two being here is zero. They've both had multiple names since. I called both of them on their shtick when they were here. They deserve it. It's not kicking them when they were down. They were down on the Flames so often. Did you tell them not to kick the Flames when they were down as they didn't have a chance to defend themselves?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Well is it really that odd to be pessimistic about a team that has made it past the first round ONCE in 25 years? (Before he was banned!)...

Moon wasn't just pessimistic about playoff success, though. He seemed to be almost intentionally obtuse, which in my opinion was very odd behaviour for a fan. In games in which the Flames won, they were terrible and merely lucky. Prospects in the system were all marginal, and virtually no better than those from any other team. It was this sort of stuff that was constantly repeated to such an extent that one had to marvel about why he would even want to be a Flames fan in the first place.

Hockey makes me happy. The Flames make me happy. Moon just seemed miserable all the time. What is the point of that?

[V]

Meh, moon was just the king of hyperbole, and nothing he said could ever be taken seriously. Only issue was that he would clog up every single thread that was originally worth reading. And he has a crazy desire to keep going. Three usernames that I know of that he was banned with. There are probably more. He's a special kind of special.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I personally really liked the few posts in which the team was readily acknowledged as terrible, but with the silver lining caveat that under Bob the Flames were much more exciting to watch.

I initially believed the flames would improve under Hartley in his first season, even donated $20 to cp as I lost a bet for pro rated points.

Things were so bad for the flames we had Eric Francis spinning up claims that Brent should be in the running for the Jack Adams.

Bob's already got more playoff wins in Calgary than Gilbert, Hay, Page, Brian, Brent, and King. That's really just one full season completely removed from the old core (minus glencross). Amazing work he's done.

[cannon7]

Some things should stay buried...

[polak]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Hockey makes me happy. The Flames make me happy. Moon just seemed miserable all the time. What is the point of that?

If his pessimism is similar to mine, then he's not choosing to be pessimistic. It's just how he is.

Although he really wasn't happy even when things actually worked out which was weird.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I am going to assume you aren't talking about Me, right?

Nope.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Hartley is an awesome coach, no way.

Then there is this gem from page 2. That guy really knew what he was talking about.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Moon wasn't just pessimistic about playoff success, though. He seemed to be almost intentionally obtuse, which in my opinion was very odd behaviour for a fan. In games in which the Flames won, they were terrible and merely lucky. Prospects in the system were all marginal, and virtually no better than those from any other team. It was this sort of stuff that was constantly repeated to such an extent that one had to marvel about why he would even want to be a Flames fan in the first place.

Hockey makes me happy. The Flames make me happy. Moon just seemed miserable all the time. What is the point of that?

I found it odd on one side he could praise Hall in Edmonton, but mock the Flames. He could be just as tough on cpers and pull out the victim card as soon as he was called out. It equally strange behavior to claim to be a Flames fan while trolling fellow Flames fans.

As for Hartley, we couldn't have gotten a better coach he has been everything the Flames and community could ask for.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I found it odd on one side he could praise Hall in Edmonton, but mock the Flames. He could be just as tough on cpers and pull out the victim card as soon as he was called out. It equally strange behavior to claim to be a Flames fan while trolling fellow Flames fans.

As for Hartley, we couldn't have gotten a better coach he has been everything the Flames and community could ask for.

I have to agree. We lucked out on Hartley. More often than not coaches have to adjust to their players and the players have to adjust to their coaches but with this group, a mix of vets and rookies and Bob as well as his assistants it just seems like everything came together absolutely perfectly.

[thymebalm]

My own post from back then suggested cleaning house. I don't think people need to eat crow over wanting change two seasons ago. Hartley changed his coaching philosophy dramatically after his first season. Now his style suits the team and the way the league has changed.

Hartley wasn't a very good coach in the lockout season. There are lots of reasons for that in hindsight. Maybe the biggest being his country club roster back then.

I give him full credit for evolving his game, his demeanor, his passion. I don't think anyone needs to feel shame over being critical in 2013. It was just as deserved then as his praise is now. That's pro sports

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

The odds of neither of those two being here is zero. They've both had multiple names since. I called both of them on their shtick when they were here. They deserve it. It's not kicking them when they were down. They were down on the Flames so often. Did you tell them not to kick the Flames when they were down as they didn't have a chance to defend themselves?

It's low class and petty to try and show up other posters. We can dig up stuff over years for every single poster here to ridicule but there's only a select few here that are spiteful enough to do it.

[jammies]

I didn't post in this thread back in the day, but I'm willing to admit I didn't like the hire, didn't think he won his Cup on the strength of his coaching, but rather his team, and thought his systems were a chaotic mess the first year he was here. I'm certainly glad I was wrong, but I'm not sure you can really blame some people for not believing he was any kind of answer considering how his tenure started.

Well, except moon. He's probably reading this thread anonymously right now and going crazy about not being able to explain how he was actually right and some X factor is making the Flames successful and not the coaches, players, or management.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by jammies

I didn't post in this thread back in the day, but I'm willing to admit I didn't like the hire, didn't think he won his Cup on the strength of his coaching, but rather his team, and thought his systems were a chaotic mess the first year he was here. I'm certainly glad I was wrong, but I'm not sure you can really blame some people for not believing he was any kind of answer considering how his tenure started.

Well, except moon. He's probably reading this thread anonymously right now and going crazy about not being able to explain how he was actually right and some X factor is making the Flames successful and not the coaches, players, or management.

At the time I was wondering if even Gelinas was assistant coaching material because the entire team was a mess. It's definitely exhibit A of why you don't overreact and fire a coach in his first season with a team but it can go both ways as I'm sure there's some Oiler fans that defended Eakins after his first season trying to be level headed and they could be ridiculed today as well for being wrong on Oiler forums.

[mikephoen]

Don't forget after the lock out training camp was like 3 days long. No wonder it was a mess of a year. Trying to switch the players from Sutter's system to Hartley's on the fly was doomed to fail.

I didn't post in the original thread, or thank anyone apparently, so I'm not sure what my thoughts were at the time. I wasn't a huge fan of the signing, I remember that, but I'm also not a fan of firing coaches just for the sake of change, so I probably had mixed feelings.

Old threads like this can certainly be interesting, just to see how opinions and feeling change over time.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Don't forget after the lock out training camp was like 3 days long. No wonder it was a mess of a year. Trying to switch the players from Sutter's system to Hartley's on the fly was doomed to fail.

That and also the schedule was so condensed Hartley had zero practice days with that team. We've seen what a mentor and teacher Hartley is, not just to kids but even with veterans/

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I personally think Hartley should be given a couple of years.

I think he is the right kind of coach for a rebuild, actually. He isn't too 'stern', but he isn't a pushover either. I think he is good at keeping the team relaxed, but does put players in their place, it seems.

Also, I am not sure what the anti-rookie bias is. I think he is tough on rookies for sure, but Tanguay and Hejduk both had stellar years as rookies under him. I remember reading about what Tanguay said - something like "he was very tough, but in the end I have to thank him for it".

For all those that would have preferred Tippet - he is apparently notoriously hard with rookies. Most coaches are. The expectations of winning are always high, and most coaches eventually prefer to throw a vet in there who will not make as many mistakes as a rookie would. However, Hartley kept throwing Tanguay and Hejduk in, even though the expectations were very high, right?

Now with about ZERO expectations for the Flames coming up the rest of this season, and the next at least, I think he would be great for this team. I didn't want him signed at first, but I do think he is the right kind of coach for this team, and seems to have the character for it.

You called it man.

[Psytic]

I thought he might of been a product of a stacked Avs team but I honestly didn't care either way whether we kept him or not. I'm ecstatic we did.