Godless Apostate

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Dion

That's Jamacians, what about all the cultures in the world?

Give me time

[T@T]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

God doesn't allow gays so gay guys have to pretend to marry women.

Or find away to explain why their not with a women..like becoming a priest.

[SeeBass]

Some of these are quite good

http://imgur.com/a/929UV

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

You can be an atheist and agnostic or a theist and agnostic.

Agnosticism deals with what is knowable. So an agnostic atheist is "I don't know, but I don't believe in a deity". Agnostic theist is "I don't know, but I believe in a deity".

It's binary; you're either an atheist or a theist (whether that is mono or polytheist is a whole different discussion), the 'agnostic' bit just tacks onto the front of it.

I'm a theist agnostic. I'm very comfy with that.

[flamesfever]

I find going to church gives me a good feeling, like I have somehow tapped into a better part of myself for a brief time. The companionship of those who I have befriended over the years, the music, the odd thing I pick up in the sermon are the main benefits I receive each time I go.

I feel sorry that more young people are not involved, as I think there are definite long term benefits for them in belonging to a church. In my mind it matters not whether you are theist, agnostic, or atheist...you can still find some of the things that we all need in the way of companionship and a greater sense of spirituality in your life.

[DuffMan]

It's the atheists who are being discriminated against...

Atheists, humanists and freethinkers face widespread discrimination around the world, with expression of their views criminalised and even subject to capital punishment, the United Nations has been told.
The International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU) said atheism was banned by law in a number of states where people were forced to officially adopt a faith.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...rights-council

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

It's the atheists who are being discriminated against...



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...rights-council

I certainly think that's wrong. Being an atheist has nothing to do with a person's character.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I feel sorry that more young people are not involved, as I think there are definite long term benefits for them in belonging to a church. In my mind it matters not whether you are theist, agnostic, or atheist...you can still find some of the things that we all need in the way of companionship and a greater sense of spirituality in your life.

1. Benefits... such as?
2. What benefit that you listed for #1 could not be provided by a multitude of other groups, clubs, meetups, etc?
3. Spirituality... can you define what you mean by this? Why does anyone 'need' this?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Dion

I heard that when I was church goer and still hear it today. It's something I never subscribed too. I think all people are capable of knowing what is right and wrong. Not everyone is a Theist but still has the capacity to formulate thier own morals and do good things.

I could be wrong but I think Theists of today are questioning what thier Bible says and how it should be interpreted. We see Denominations moving away from the teaching of homosexuality and more accepting of who they are. It's my belief that we will see more of the above as time goes on.

Many of the Theists I knew back in the day where of an open mind and were always questioning things. The problem I see is getting the heads of all the denominations and faiths to open thier minds to other possibilities.

so it begs the question....if you follow your own path, why choose religion? The bible or any other religious tome seems to present a path that does not recognize what you aspire to. Be a good person, treat others as you want to be treated, these are not religious ideals, they are human. Why argue for a concept that in your mind does not fulfill your aspirations?
If a "denomination" is moving away from the teachings at its core, what does that say about what it taught for the hundreds or thousands of years before? Where does it suggest in any biblical book that you can take the readings and make them your own, where does it suggest that you are free to "read into" parts of the bible yet take others at their direct meaning? In what other parts of your life do you live like this?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I find going to church gives me a good feeling, like I have somehow tapped into a better part of myself for a brief time. The companionship of those who I have befriended over the years, the music, the odd thing I pick up in the sermon are the main benefits I receive each time I go.

I feel sorry that more young people are not involved, as I think there are definite long term benefits for them in belonging to a church. In my mind it matters not whether you are theist, agnostic, or atheist...you can still find some of the things that we all need in the way of companionship and a greater sense of spirituality in your life.

The church understands that it must persue a persons senses in order for it to draw people back through its doors over and over. The use of incense, chants, flowers, holding hands and praying together and music are some of the ways it keeps you coming back. Heck even I can remember being held by those magical stimulants. This is not by accident and everyone that steps through those doors feels the same way and that is why you have a common bond with those people.
I am happy that young people are opening their eyes and shunning this nonsense. They are more educated and understand clearly that there is significantly more to life than having some pious clergyman tell them how to live their lives, when they clearly have no idea themselves.
Do you believe for one minute that a pastor, priest or imam wants you in their facility only for the spiritual benefit? Do you believe that by being spiritual that your mind is open to critical thinking? Does being spiritual in your mind mean you do not believe in the religious text that is presented to you?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I find going to church gives me a good feeling, like I have somehow tapped into a better part of myself for a brief time. The companionship of those who I have befriended over the years, the music, the odd thing I pick up in the sermon are the main benefits I receive each time I go.

I feel sorry that more young people are not involved, as I think there are definite long term benefits for them in belonging to a church. In my mind it matters not whether you are theist, agnostic, or atheist...you can still find some of the things that we all need in the way of companionship and a greater sense of spirituality in your life.

I agree with this, even if it's just to relax. The rare times that I've been in a church I've found the music soothing. Same as when I go to the Buddhist temple and listen to those drums and chants. Have no clue what the monk is singing but it sounds cool.

But I don't make it a habit.

[photon]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

1. Benefits... such as?
2. What benefit that you listed for #1 could not be provided by a multitude of other groups, clubs, meetups, etc?
3. Spirituality... can you define what you mean by this? Why does anyone 'need' this?

I know people that have joined a humanist or similar "church" in order to get the social benefits. Most groups, clubs and such tend to be more focused on a specific thing, which tends to focus just on one person or the adults or whatever, where they felt what they were going to was more focused on the family in general.

I could definitely see how that could be appealing and how someone could miss the social aspect of church if they stop going.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I'm a theist agnostic. I'm very comfy with that.

These split titles amuse me. I am atheist pure and simple, I have absolutely no belief in a God or Gods.
A theist on the other hand is one who believes in a God or Gods and an Agnostic is a fence sitter who either cannot make up their mind about a religion or is too lazy to do the work to determine which side of the fence they would like to sit on.
If an atheist believes that after death there is nothing and a theist believes there is some form of heaven or hell, what does an agnostic believe there is? Bullhorns? Hockey songs?
One of the definitions of an agnostic is "unwilling to commit to an opinion about something".

At least a theist is taking a side and is willing to commit to it.

[TopChed]

Originally Posted by Cheese

These split titles amuse me. I am atheist pure and simple, I have absolutely no belief in a God or Gods.
A theist on the other hand is one who believes in a God or Gods and an Agnostic is a fence sitter who either cannot make up their mind about a religion or is too lazy to do the work to determine which side of the fence they would like to sit on.
If an atheist believes that after death there is nothing and a theist believes there is some form of heaven or hell, what does an agnostic believe there is? Bullhorns? Hockey songs?
One of the definitions of an agnostic is "unwilling to commit to an opinion about something".

At least a theist is taking a side and is willing to commit to it.

I think being agnostic is less about choosing sides, and more about admitting you don't know for certain. I look at that part of it as a very healthy outlook. It's difficult for any of us to know we are right.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Cheese

These split titles amuse me. I am atheist pure and simple, I have absolutely no belief in a God or Gods.
A theist on the other hand is one who believes in a God or Gods and an Agnostic is a fence sitter who either cannot make up their mind about a religion or is too lazy to do the work to determine which side of the fence they would like to sit on.

Atheism/theism and agnostic/gnostic sit on separate axis, agnostic doesn't sit between atheism and theism.

Most theists are in fact agnostic theists because they don't "know" in the sense that they can't prove it to anyone, they just feel they're right.



Or http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mTQMZdLU_j...v%2BTheist.png

So an agnostic atheist would say they don't believe, but would say that it's possible to be convinced if more information came available (or would say that they don't believe and that the truth is inherently unknowable). A gnostic atheist would say there is enough evidence to say for sure that there is no god.

Of course one has to define god too. I'm almost 100% certain about the god of the Bible, less sure about other more vague definitions of god.

[TorqueDog]

^What sort of atheist I am depends on the god-concept being proposed. Judeo-Christian God Yahweh, demonstrably false and therefore gnostic atheist. A God that is beyond our comprehension, observation, or detection using what methods we have to evaluate data and establish truth, agnostic atheist because the being proposed is unknowable by its very definition.

Originally Posted by Cheese

These split titles amuse me. I am atheist pure and simple, I have absolutely no belief in a God or Gods.
A theist on the other hand is one who believes in a God or Gods and an Agnostic is a fence sitter who either cannot make up their mind about a religion or is too lazy to do the work to determine which side of the fence they would like to sit on.
If an atheist believes that after death there is nothing and a theist believes there is some form of heaven or hell, what does an agnostic believe there is? Bullhorns? Hockey songs?
One of the definitions of an agnostic is "unwilling to commit to an opinion about something".

At least a theist is taking a side and is willing to commit to it.

No, gnosis refers to knowledge, what is knowable. Agnostic is not a middle-ground position, it addresses a completely different part of the discussion.

It would be making a positive claim on the part of an atheist to say "there is no god". It's the same differentiation we make between the use of "guilty, not guilty, or innocent" in our justice system. We declare someone guilty or not guilty, but a 'not guilty' verdict does not mean 'innocent'.

Guilty - We have evidence to establish guilt.
Not guilty - We do not have evidence to establish guilt.
Innocent - We have evidence to establish innocence.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by Cheese

These split titles amuse me. I am atheist pure and simple, I have absolutely no belief in a God or Gods.
A theist on the other hand is one who believes in a God or Gods and an Agnostic is a fence sitter who either cannot make up their mind about a religion or is too lazy to do the work to determine which side of the fence they would like to sit on.
If an atheist believes that after death there is nothing and a theist believes there is some form of heaven or hell, what does an agnostic believe there is? Bullhorns? Hockey songs?
One of the definitions of an agnostic is "unwilling to commit to an opinion about something".

At least a theist is taking a side and is willing to commit to it.

Seriously? Is the choice really that black and white for you? And why does it matter if somebody doesn't actually know? It's not as if they haven't done any work to decide "which side of the fence" to sit on. Perhaps they have, and have come to the conclusion that they just don't know the answer because it's not obvious.

If you can go ahead and prove, without a doubt, that there is or isn't a god, then absolutely be an a/theist without any hint of agnosticism. Until then, I'd say it's an alright prefix to put in front of your long list of self identifiers.

The part that gets me, though, is when an atheist (not specifically you, Cheese) constantly talks about being persecuted by theists and speaks about the discrimination they receive on a daily basis and then goes ahead and says "Well at least I'm not an agnostic! Those idiots can't make a decision! HAH!" as if a) it's a bad thing, and b) it's ok to cry about discrimination and then talk down to, and insult, another group of people.

The idea that you have to "commit" to anything regarding the after life is pretty absurd. None of us have died and come back to really shed any light on the situation. Personally, I'd rather hear "I don't know" over some made up bull#### because somebody is too afraid to admit they don't know.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I certainly think that's wrong. Being an atheist has nothing to do with a person's character.

Yet worldwide being an atheist has the gambit from being killed to just being trusted less than a rapist (rapist survey done in Vancouver.)

There are countless areas in the US for example where admitting your an atheist will get you shunned, bullied, fired, and a host of other nasty things. In places in the middle east, Asia you can get killed and imprisoned.

While you may think being an atheist has nothing to do with a person's character, a large chunk of this planet views non believers as dangerous and worth of fear and scorn.

[Knut]

I am of the belief that religion is a completely uneccesary part of the belief In a higher power. In fact is a human constructed way for a small number to control the massses.

I personally do not believe in a higher power but I am not going to completely rule it out. (Agnostic Atheist). I have not seen any evidence though an likely never will.

I completely understand why someone would believe in a higher power and my beef is with religion and not the actual belief in god.

I think atheists spend too much time trying to disprove the existence of god and instead should try and educate people on the wrong-doings of religion itself.

[Thor]

When I actually get into a debate with religious people, the most important things I want to know before we begin are:

#1 Is the (insert holy book) the literal word of God or the writings of its religious scholars.
#2 Do you believe in Hell, and that there are clear rules about who goes there.
#3 Do you believe in separation of Church and State.

Specific to Catholics, I always like to find out, do you believe in transubstantiation, that priests should be celibate and that women should not be allowed into the priesthood.

Specific to all Religious, do you believe in an intervening God that touches our world with miracles, or has any influence on events in human history, or a non-intervening God who started this all and left it to us to with as we see fit.

Generally that gives me a real good idea where we can agree and what is worth debating.