The New American Politics thread

[Caged Great]

Can't win an election due to people hating your ideas/people. Option one, change your ideas. Option 2, try to subvert democracy entirely.

Nice game plan GOP with option 2. I hope you become irrelevant.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Can't win an election due to people hating your ideas/people. Option one, change your ideas. Option 2, try to subvert democracy entirely.

Nice game plan GOP with option 2. I hope you become irrelevant.

Saw a couple of days ago that Paul Ryan said they lost because they don't use modern communication medium like the Dems did.

option 3. use the internets to communicate better.

[CaptainCrunch]

It was funny when I was in Washington for the last few days, I was sitting in a bar chatting with people and the overwhelming sentiment by the people there was that Obama was the least bad of the two candidates, its not like people have any faith in the guy, they are as one guy said "riding out the next four years and hoping that somebody good runs in the next election"

I will note that most of the Yanks that I talked to are feeling a little more optimistic then they were last year, but still feel that at some point in the next four years that their economy is going to tumble over the edge.

BTW if anyone is ever in Reston, VA go to Passion Fish, one of the best meals that I've ever had in a restaurant.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Can't win an election due to people hating your ideas/people. Option one, change your ideas. Option 2, try to subvert democracy entirely.

Nice game plan GOP with option 2. I hope you become irrelevant.

In fairness, the electoral college is ridiculous. It should be reformed.

However, the GOP's proposals for reforming it manage to actually be LESS democratic; they want to use gerrymandered congressional districts to allocate electoral votes.

Under their proposal, Romney would have won the election despite losing by 5 million votes in the popular vote.

In their defence, this proposal is easier than changing the entire culture of their party to suit the mood of the American electorate. Democracy is hard!

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

It was funny when I was in Washington for the last few days, I was sitting in a bar chatting with people and the overwhelming sentiment by the people there was that Obama was the least bad of the two candidates, its not like people have any faith in the guy, they are as one guy said "riding out the next four years and hoping that somebody good runs in the next election"

I will note that most of the Yanks that I talked to are feeling a little more optimistic then they were last year, but still feel that at some point in the next four years that their economy is going to tumble over the edge.

BTW if anyone is ever in Reston, VA go to Passion Fish, one of the best meals that I've ever had in a restaurant.

The "people in a bar" method is interesting, but recent polls are telling a bit of a different story. Obama's job approval is now at 55%, which is pretty high for a President in his 5th year in office, and very high relative to his approval ratings for most of 2012, which were way underwated. Pew research also has his personal favourability at just under 60%.

There's probably a honeymoon effect, but Americans like Obama right now way more than they liked Bush after his re-election, and better than they've liked him since May of 2009, which is when his REAL honeymoon started to wane.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Cory Booker, the guy can do pretty much anything


http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs...-politics.html

He'll make for a good president some day no doubt.

A lot more dogs to look after when you're president

[Montana Moe]

Treatment of dogs should be handled by the states!

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Cory Booker, the guy can do pretty much anything


http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs...-politics.html

He'll make for a good president some day no doubt.

I love Cory Booker. What an outrageous populous politician he is.

[Flash Walken]

Abstract
Background The Tea Party, which gained prominence in the USA in 2009, advocates limited government and low taxes. Tea Party organisations, particularly Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks, oppose smoke-free laws and tobacco taxes.

Methods We used the Legacy Tobacco Documents Library, the Wayback Machine, Google, LexisNexis, the Center for Media and Democracy and the Center for Responsive Politics (opensecrets.org) to examine the tobacco companies’ connections to the Tea Party.

Results Starting in the 1980s, tobacco companies worked to create the appearance of broad opposition to tobacco control policies by attempting to create a grassroots smokers’ rights movement. Simultaneously, they funded and worked through third-party groups, such as Citizens for a Sound Economy, the predecessor of AFP and FreedomWorks, to accomplish their economic and political agenda. There has been continuity of some key players, strategies and messages from these groups to Tea Party organisations. As of 2012, the Tea Party was beginning to spread internationally.

Conclusions Rather than being a purely grassroots movement that spontaneously developed in 2009, the Tea Party has developed over time, in part through decades of work by the tobacco industry and other corporate interests. It is important for tobacco control advocates in the USA and internationally, to anticipate and counter Tea Party opposition to tobacco control policies and ensure that policymakers, the media and the public understand the longstanding connection between the tobacco industry, the Tea Party and its associated organisations.

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/conten...50815.abstract

The common public understanding of the origins of the Tea Party is that it is a popular grassroots uprising that began with anti-tax protests in 2009.

However, the Quarterback study reveals that in 2002, the Kochs and tobacco-backed CSE designed and made public the first Tea Party Movement website under the web address www.usteaparty.com.

...

Sometime around September 2011, the U.S. Tea Party site was taken offline. According to the DNS registry, the web address www.usteaparty.com is currently owned by Freedomworks.

The implications of the UCSF Quarterback report are widespread. The main concern expressed by the authors lies in what they see happening overseas as the Tea Party movement expands internationally, training activists in 30 countries including Israel, Georgia, Japan and Serbia.

As the authors explain:

"This international expansion makes it likely that Tea Party organizations will be mounting opposition to tobacco control (and other health) policies as they have done in the USA."

Freedomworks and Americans for Prosperity are both multi-issue organizations that have expanded their battles to include other policies they see as threats to the free market principles they claim to defend, namely fighting health care reform and regulations on global warming pollution. The report's warning about overseas expansion efforts by Freedomworks should therefore also be heeded by groups in the health and environment arenas.

Finally, this report might serve as a wake-up call to some people in the Tea Party itself, who would find it a little disturbing that the "grassroots" movement they are so emotionally attached to, is in fact a pawn created by billionaires and large corporations with little interest in fighting for the rights of the common person, but instead using the common person to fight for their own unfettered profits.

http://www.desmogblog.com/2013/02/11...-billionaires?

[DuffMan]

So big tobacco runs the Tea Party?

interesting.

[Hemi-Cuda]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/11/op...-watchdog.html

The consumer bureau has taken seriously its mandate to protect the public from the kinds of abuses that helped lead to the 2009 recession, and it has not been intimidated by the financial industry’s army of lobbyists. That’s what worries Republicans. They can’t prevent the bureau from regulating their financial supporters. Having failed to block the creation of the bureau in the 2010 Dodd-Frank financial reform bill, they are now trying to take away its power by filibuster, and they may well succeed.

i honestly don't understand how any American that isn't making a six figure income can support the Republican party, everything they do is to benefit the ultra rich. and they're not even subtle about it. such a disgusting excuse for a political party

[Red Ice Player]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...7adb_blog.html

A Texas GOP congressman is showing how much he respects the office of President. He's bringing Ted (Crapped his drawers to avoid the draft but he's a great patriot) Nugent as his date for the State of the Union Address. What a circus this is gonna be...All the press after the speech will be listening to this coward's insane ramblings, much more so than the actual Republican party rebuttal speakers. This will be the most watched SOTU address of all time, for all the wrong reasons. A gift wrapped present for the Democratic party.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/11/op...-watchdog.html



i honestly don't understand how any American that isn't making a six figure income can support the Republican party, everything they do is to benefit the ultra rich. and they're not even subtle about it. such a disgusting excuse for a political party

I haven't seen any benefit that Democratic party has given to the 30k to the Ultra Rich either.... just saying. As a matter of fact I think a lot of people in that category just lost 2.5% of their pay or something to that effect.

A lot of my Canadian friends use this line on me... "well at least you'll get Obamacare".... I had insurance before ObamaCare and I'd have it without it. If Obama really wants to help out with healthcare he needs to crack down on what hospitals , doctors, and pharmaceutical companies charge.

I will give you a person example...

I pay 330.00/ month for my insurance. I have a 1,000 deductible , so before my insurance will pay anything I have to spend $1000 dollars ( to compare my dad has a 5,000$ Deductible. Cheaper monthly premiums = Higher Deductible), then they cover 80% of the bill. I am Diabetic.. my insulin and supplies cost roughly 150 dollars a month. All my other prescriptions range from 4$ per fill to $50.00 a fill. When I go see any doctor... Diabetic, Back Doctor, etc its $30.00 just to walk in the door to see the doctor. Then they bill my insurance, insurance pays whatever it covers , and then the doctor sends me a bill for anywhere from 0 - 100 more dollars per visit. This is just routine office check ups, it's more, a lot more, if there is any procedure done.

In 2012, I had a Colonoscopy, 5 Steroid Shots in my spine, and a back surgery... I was looking through my medical bills today for Taxes and Doctor billings to my insurance were $79,281.54. The total out of pocket ( estimated) for me was $9,827.12. That's after paying almost 4,000 just in premiums. Ridiculous huh?

The part that pisses me off the most... As I said ,I am diabetic and I take insulin. I take insulin with me everywhere I go. When I was in the hospital for surgery they came in to give me my insulin. I said No, I have my own. They said " no sorry sir against the rules , you have to take ours."

I took 4 shots in there ( as that's what I take daily). They billed my insurance 400.00 per shot. 1600.00 dollars. Both of the insulins I take are 300 bucks a month with out having ANY insurance. I was so f'in irked.

Anyway :::end rant:::: sorry

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

I haven't seen any benefit that Democratic party has given to the 30k to the Ultra Rich either.... just saying. As a matter of fact I think a lot of people in that category just lost 2.5% of their pay or something to that effect.

A lot of my Canadian friends use this line on me... "well at least you'll get Obamacare".... I had insurance before ObamaCare and I'd have it without it. If Obama really wants to help out with healthcare he needs to crack down on what hospitals , doctors, and pharmaceutical companies charge.

I will give you a person example...

I pay 330.00/ month for my insurance. I have a 1,000 deductible , so before my insurance will pay anything I have to spend $1000 dollars ( to compare my dad has a 5,000$ Deductible. Cheaper monthly premiums = Higher Deductible), then they cover 80% of the bill. I am Diabetic.. my insulin and supplies cost roughly 150 dollars a month. All my other prescriptions range from 4$ per fill to $50.00 a fill. When I go see any doctor... Diabetic, Back Doctor, etc its $30.00 just to walk in the door to see the doctor. Then they bill my insurance, insurance pays whatever it covers , and then the doctor sends me a bill for anywhere from 0 - 100 more dollars per visit. This is just routine office check ups, it's more, a lot more, if there is any procedure done.

In 2012, I had a Colonoscopy, 5 Steroid Shots in my spine, and a back surgery... I was looking through my medical bills today for Taxes and Doctor billings to my insurance were $79,281.54. The total out of pocket ( estimated) for me was $9,827.12. That's after paying almost 4,000 just in premiums. Ridiculous huh?

The part that pisses me off the most... As I said ,I am diabetic and I take insulin. I take insulin with me everywhere I go. When I was in the hospital for surgery they came in to give me my insulin. I said No, I have my own. They said " no sorry sir against the rules , you have to take ours."

I took 4 shots in there ( as that's what I take daily). They billed my insurance 400.00 per shot. 1600.00 dollars. Both of the insulins I take are 300 bucks a month with out having ANY insurance. I was so f'in irked.

Anyway :::end rant:::: sorry

Holy crap you are getting bent over but good. Time to move here full time Nicker...

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Holy crap you are getting bent over but good. Time to move here full time Nicker...

Working on it... Finishing up the paper work to be sent in to immigration. I'm prepared to move there as soon as I am able to work there.... and can get Flames season tickets


.... can I bring my guns?!?!?!

[Flash Walken]

I don't want any foreigners coming up here and taking my healthcare.

Y'all can wander back to whatever second or third world mexican knock off you came from, hillbilly!

I think we need to build a fence on the border.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

A lot of my Canadian friends use this line on me... "well at least you'll get Obamacare".... I had insurance before ObamaCare and I'd have it without it. If Obama really wants to help out with healthcare he needs to crack down on what hospitals , doctors, and pharmaceutical companies charge.

How can he crack down on it? Hospitals and health care there are for profit. Free enterprise and making profit is the American way, so how would he crack down on it?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

I haven't seen any benefit that Democratic party has given to the 30k to the Ultra Rich either.... just saying. As a matter of fact I think a lot of people in that category just lost 2.5% of their pay or something to that effect.

The protection bureau talked about in the article I linked was created 18 months ago under the Obama administration, and already has made some difference. but it's not just about giving benefits to the poor, it's about keeping the ones they already have (medicare, food stamps, welfare, etc). The Republican agenda is to scrap or severely limit all of those programs while at the same time giving tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires. It would be comical in how much the Republicans are looking like stereotypical Disney movie villains if it wasn't actually happening

I'm not saying the Democrats are the perfect party, or even that they're really all that good (in Canada they'd be more right wing than our Conservative party). But compared to the lunacy that is the Republicans they're really the only intelligent choice (until the US gets a third party worth mentioning)

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

How can he crack down on it? Hospitals and health care there are for profit. Free enterprise and making profit is the American way, so how would he crack down on it?

Well IIRC you want more regulations in place for gun control, if its possible regulate the profit of gun manufacturer's doing this ( which would be an effect of more strict gun control measures) then I'm sure you can put in some sort of regulation on hospitals and pharmaceutical businesses. Im not using that statement as a political statement for or against gun control. I am just saying if you can regulate some things there is a way to regulate others.

There should be no reason why a hospital bills my insurance company 10,000 dollars for a procedure but if I went in to the hospital and said I have no insurance , I will pay with cash what does it cost? Well usually its about 80% difference in cost. Obviously like a credit card there is money that goes towards paying someone to do the paperwork etc... but still . Seems asinine eh?

I had an emergency appendectomy in 2010. The total billing to my insurance was 26k and some change. I had a buddy who had the same thing done with no insurance, same hospital, and he paid 1800 bucks . Doesn't there seem to be something wrong here?

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't want any foreigners coming up here and taking my healthcare.

Y'all can wander back to whatever second or third world mexican knock off you came from, hillbilly!

I think we need to build a fence on the border.

Viva La Canada esse !!!

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

Well IIRC you want more regulations in place for gun control, if its possible regulate the profit of gun manufacturer's doing this ( which would be an effect of more strict gun control measures) then I'm sure you can put in some sort of regulation on hospitals and pharmaceutical businesses. Im not using that statement as a political statement for or against gun control. I am just saying if you can regulate some things there is a way to regulate others.

There should be no reason why a hospital bills my insurance company 10,000 dollars for a procedure but if I went in to the hospital and said I have no insurance , I will pay with cash what does it cost? Well usually its about 80% difference in cost. Obviously like a credit card there is money that goes towards paying someone to do the paperwork etc... but still . Seems asinine eh?

I had an emergency appendectomy in 2010. The total billing to my insurance was 26k and some change. I had a buddy who had the same thing done with no insurance, same hospital, and he paid 1800 bucks . Doesn't there seem to be something wrong here?




Viva La Canada esse !!!

Yeah, it could be done if the politicians were for it but they aren't and what you ended up with was a watered down version of what health care reform was supposed to be.