Jack Layton dies at 61

[V]

I'm saying that he's spent his life politicking. I'm assuming he's doing that because it's what he believes is the best way to spend his time. Why does that need to change just because he's on his deathbed?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Ark2

He's "allowed" to do whatever he wants. I just thought it was lame that he was still politicking during his last days on earth. Kind of sums him up for me. If other people are able to take inspiration out of that, then great, I guess...

What were you expecting? A rendition of "My Way?"

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Ark2

He's "allowed" to do whatever he wants. I just thought it was lame that he was still politicking during his last days on earth. Kind of sums him up for me. If other people are able to take inspiration out of that, then great, I guess...

Politics was his passion, I'm not at all surprised he was doing it up until the final minute of his life.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by V

I'm saying that he's spent his life politicking. I'm assuming he's doing that because it's what he believes is the best way to spend his time. Why does that need to change just because he's on his deathbed?

Politicking is generally understood to be insincere which kind of contradicts the sort of sentiment you usually expect from someone on their deathbed. Again, this isn't me telling someone what they should or should not say, just giving my position on it. If you are looking for unyielding adulation for Jack Layton's letter, then I'd advise you to look to virtually anyone other than me.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Politicking is generally understood to be insincere which kind of contradicts the sort of sentiment you usually expect from someone on their deathbed. Again, this isn't me telling someone what they should or should not say, just giving my position on it. If you are looking for unyielding adulation for Jack Layton's letter, then I'd advise you to look to virtually anyone other than me.

You're an expert on deathbed statements?

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

You're an expert on deathbed statements?

Yupp.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Yupp.

Suppose he had separate "goodbye" letters dictated for his wife, his kids, and his inner circle of friends. Suppose those were not publicly circulated.

Plausible?

How is a goodbye letter to the public, to his party "troops" and to other cancer sufferers self-serving to a dead man?

Critics are just being stupid.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Suppose he had separate "goodbye" letters dictated for his wife, his kids, and his inner circle of friends. Suppose those were not publicly circulated.

Plausible?

How is a goodbye letter to the public, to his party "troops" and to other cancer sufferers self-serving to a dead man?

Critics are just being stupid.

Where exactly did I say "self-serving"? It seems that, as always, you are so intent to take issue with someone that their actual position is irrelevant to you.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Where exactly did I say "self-serving"? It seems that, as always, you are so intent to take issue with someone that their actual position is irrelevant to you.

Well, your agreeing with Blatchford's take that Layton was working an angle is a giveaway.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Well, your agreeing with Blatchford's take that Layton was working an angle is a giveaway.

I said that I liked her take on it and there is no real debate that he was working a political angle. If you read the letter rather than just mindlessly spouting off about it you would be able to see this.

[V]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Well, your agreeing with Blatchford's take that Layton was working an angle is a giveaway.

You think he wasn't??

Doesn't make him self-serving. He continued to fight for what he believed in. Ark thinks that's lame. His prerogative, I suppose.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by transplant99

It is, and no one can deny that regardless of the reasons behiond it....but is it anything that should be considered state funeral worthy?

If the deaths of the Veterans Affairs minister, the Postmaster General, and a Minister without Portfolio while in office warrants a state funeral (all of which have occurred in Canadian history), then I don't see why the death of the opposition leader while in office shouldn't.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Despite what it is, I think this is quite an opportunity for his son, Mike Layton who is already following in his father's footsteps as a Toronto City Councilor to maybe step up to the Federal NDPs based on his father's name and give that party some sense of continuity with Jack Layton.

I thought this too. I suspect he'll run in the by-election and kick around as a backbencher...maybe take on a critic's portfolio in a couple of years. And then in another 8 years or so when the NDP hold their next leadership convention, he'll take his shot then.

I know nothing about him, really, but that seems to be how things happen in such political families (see Trudeau, e.g.)

[moon]

Originally Posted by Slava

I wonder how many people who are opposed to Layton receiving a state funeral would've have been in favour of Preston Manning receiving one? (Of course no one will admit this now, but it does make me wonder)

Preston manning is/was a great Canadian/person trying to make this country better.

Layton is a scumbag with a horrible disease that did everything he could to make this country a worse place to live.

I understand the need to deify everyone who died and I do appreaciate the los that his family feels and horrible effects of cancer. But Layton deserves nothing based on the way he conducted himself and the disgusting politics he tried to force on this country.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by moon

Preston manning is/was a great Canadian/person trying to make this country better.

Layton is a scumbag with a horrible disease that did everything he could to make this country a worse place to live.
.

You're just an enlightened individual.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by moon

Preston manning is/was a great Canadian/person trying to make this country better.

Layton is a scumbag with a horrible disease that did everything he could to make this country a worse place to live.

I understand the need to deify everyone who died and I do appreaciate the los that his family feels and horrible effects of cancer. But Layton deserves nothing based on the way he conducted himself and the disgusting politics he tried to force on this country.

Translation: He/she is allowed a state funeral, only if I agree with their views.

[moon]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Translation: He/she is allowed a state funeral, only if I agree with their views.

Not quite.

Translation: Layton doesn't deserve a state funeral.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by moon

Not quite.

Translation: Layton doesn't deserve a state funeral.

I hate everything you try too hard to be

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Ark2

I said that I liked her take on it and there is no real debate that he was working a political angle. If you read the letter rather than just mindlessly spouting off about it you would be able to see this.

Usually when someone is "working a political angle", they are doing it with some sort of personal benefit in mind. This guy knew he was dying and knew he wasn't going to gain anything. He asked people to continue working towards something he believed in after he died.

The bashers in this thread sound like ideologues in the vein of Rush Limbaugh.

You didn't like him. We get it.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I hate everything you try too hard to be

Don't try to be anything.

And if you hate it then it is likely the right way to go.