Christofascists seeking to seize our country

[Cain]

Kids do need a safe outlet because believe it or not...that isn't home and parents for all of them. Lots of kids are very lucky with great parents where this wouldn't be an issue and it would turn out great. Unfortunately, it would also be terrible for a few and that should be considered with these sorts of things. Whether or not the school should fulfill this function is a valid argument, but it is probably one of the more logical places for it.


Some parents get so worked up about this and I have to think that *most of them are all worked up for no reason. You probably do a fine job and your kid would talk to you about things as needed. This kind of thing is for the sad situations where that doesn't exist and you don't factor in at all.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

These policies are so hard to support or not. To me, every single child and every situation can be different from the next. I personally would want to know if my child wants to use a different pronoun. But I really don’t think it would be a problem for my personal situation as I spend lots of time with my kids and have lots of conversations. So I would know what my kids want by talking to them, not from hearing it from school.

Some parents would want to know so they could support their children and some would want to know so they could stop their children.

Some children might know more about themselves at 10 years old than the next child knows about themselves at 14.

Really really tough to group everything together when every situation can be so different.

This is true, and that's why the most logical course of action is for the school to largely stay out of it. And when they do get involved, it's on a case-by-case basis and relies on the context of the situation.

The most neutral action a school can take is to allow the child and their parents handle it without getting involved. These laws on the other hand compel action and require the school to involve themselves in the matter, even in situations where it's detrimental.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

If my kid was in that situation, I would actually become quite angry and agitated if the school withheld that from me. If my child is going through something, potentially dysmorphia or gender dysmorphia, the parents should be made aware, of course. I'm responsible for the child's wellbeing, not the school.

I'm sure a fundamentalist religious family would be angry and agitated if they found out a school was withholding the fact that their son or daughter was acting contrary to the family's faith at school. Does that mean it's the school's job to notify them of that?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I'm sure a fundamentalist religious family would be angry and agitated if they found out a school was withholding the fact that their son or daughter was acting contrary to the family's faith at school. Does that mean it's the school's job to notify them of that?

There are ####ty parents of all shapes and sizes. Abuse, neglect, etc, including backwards social beliefs.

Surely a schools administration can deal with situations on a case by case basis without a LAW needing to be implemented. I say again if my kid was in the scenario I would want to be told so I can help my child. I am open with my kids so I don’t doubt they’d come to me first, but you never know.

Given the level of tomfoolery I got into as a kid, I wouldn’t put it past one of my kids to request being called Nighthawk or Poopyhead knowing the school couldn’t tell me, legally.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

There are ####ty parents of all shapes and sizes. Abuse, neglect, etc, including backwards social beliefs.

Surely a schools administration can deal with situations on a case by case basis without a LAW needing to be implemented. I say again if my kid was in the scenario I would want to be told so I can help my child. I am open with my kids so I don’t doubt they’d come to me first, but you never know.

Given the level of tomfoolery I got into as a kid, I wouldn’t put it past one of my kids to request being called Nighthawk or Poopyhead knowing the school couldn’t tell me, legally.

Okay, so you don't get told. BFD?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Given the level of tomfoolery I got into as a kid, I wouldn’t put it past one of my kids to request being called Nighthawk or Poopyhead knowing the school couldn’t tell me, legally.

So what?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Matata

Children belong to the state, comrades.

So you oppose this policy, right?

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Okay, so you don't get told. BFD?

In that scenario, I would want to be told so I could disciple my child, they would basically be making a mockery of people who are wanting to change their pronoun.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Okay, so you don't get told. BFD?

I don’t want my kid being a disruption to the class or making the teachers life hard. If the kid is being a dummy, I want to be told so I can discipline them.

School is for learning.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

There are ####ty parents of all shapes and sizes. Abuse, neglect, etc, including backwards social beliefs.

Surely a schools administration can deal with situations on a case by case basis without a LAW needing to be implemented. I say again if my kid was in the scenario I would want to be told so I can help my child. I am open with my kids so I don’t doubt they’d come to me first, but you never know.

Given the level of tomfoolery I got into as a kid, I wouldn’t put it past one of my kids to request being called Nighthawk or Poopyhead knowing the school couldn’t tell me, legally.

But the law, if similar to Saskatchewan or NB, would effectively make it so the school would have to tell you of any such request and/or would have to get your consent before complying with any such request.

There is no law that says they can’t tell you. There is no proposed law suggesting as much.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Based on what your saying, do you support the policy?

I don’t support a school requiring permission from the parents or informing them against the wishes of the child. I just think there are complications though, that can probably be worked through easily enough, if there is a disconnect between what the parents think the child identifies as and what the child/school know. I mean, I am talking about logistics matters like school forms, signing report cards, etc.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But the law, if similar to Saskatchewan or NB, would effectively make it so the school would have to tell you of any such request and/or would have to get your consent before complying with any such request.

There is no law that says they can’t tell you. There is no proposed law suggesting as much.

I may have misunderstood the policy then and shot from the hip.

But That’s the internet for ya amirite?

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

There are ####ty parents of all shapes and sizes. Abuse, neglect, etc, including backwards social beliefs.

Surely a schools administration can deal with situations on a case by case basis without a LAW needing to be implemented. I say again if my kid was in the scenario I would want to be told so I can help my child. I am open with my kids so I don’t doubt they’d come to me first, but you never know.

Given the level of tomfoolery I got into as a kid, I wouldn’t put it past one of my kids to request being called Nighthawk or Poopyhead knowing the school couldn’t tell me, legally.

Sure, that makes sense from a reasonable parent's perspective. You want to support your child, and you think if you were informed, you'd be able to do that more effectively.

But look at it from the school's perspective. They can never know what the parent/child relationship is actually like behind closed doors. And when the child explicitly says they don't want the parents to know, it's quite possible that there's a good reason for that.

How do you feel about sexual orientation? Should schools have to out children to their parents if they suspect that two boys or two girls are in a relationship at school, even if the kids specifically say they don't want their parents to be informed?

These laws aren't designed to better support children. They're designed to quash what these weirdos see as anti-social behavior (e.g. transgenderism). The idea is, if schools are required to basically snitch on kids to their parents, then the kids who don't want their parents to know will conceal their identity, essentially remaining in the closet, so to speak.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I wish the poll function was available. I'd be interested to see something like:

'When a student aged 15 or under requests that their preferred name, gender identity, and/or gender expression be used:

A - Parent/Guardian must be informed and consent required
B - Parent/Guardian must be informed, however, consent not required
C - Parent/Guardian does not need to be informed'

What I was curious about was if CP's results would strongly differ from the Angus Reid poll that was recently done:

https://angusreid.org/canada-schools...new-brunswick/

"A majority of all partisans agree that parents should be informed, but many disagree as to whether consent is necessary."

Nationally, the results were:

43% - Parents should be informed and must give consent
35% - Parents should be informed, consent not required
14% - Parents should not have a role in this decision

I believe the poll question was in regards to children under the age of 18 though, and not children under the age of 16 as the NB & SK policies state.

[opendoor]

Kind of crazy that 43% of Canadians in that poll support a requirement that's more extreme than basically all but the absolute craziest US states have. Even Alabama doesn't require parental consent; schools just can't withhold the info from parents.

[Itse]

It would probably be extremely hard to find a single case anywhere in the world where a child who wants to hide their trans identity from their parents would ever want anyone to use a differently gendered name in as public a place as a school.

The whole idea of this law is ridiculous and obviously aimed to be just a step towards more legalized transphobia.

[110%]

What happens when a parent of a 7 year old trans child submits a FOIP request for all records about their child? If the school just goes along with a name change for this student, do they just hide a bunch of documents or what? Or black out the child’s name on everything? It would be illegal to do so, but how are these things handled? Keeping secrets from parents will be extremely difficult. This says nothing about human error as well. Teachers are a bit unsophisticated and I’m sure would accidentally tell the parents all the time.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by 110%

What happens when a parent of a 7 year old trans child submits a FOIP request for all records about their child? If the school just goes along with a name change for this student, do they just hide a bunch of documents or what? Or black out the child’s name on everything? It would be illegal to do so, but how are these things handled? Keeping secrets from parents will be extremely difficult. This says nothing about human error as well. Teachers are a bit unsophisticated and I’m sure would accidentally tell the parents all the time.

Why would they hide anything or keep things a secret? This doesn’t have anything to do with what is being discussed.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by 110%

What happens when a parent of a 7 year old trans child submits a FOIP request for all records about their child? If the school just goes along with a name change for this student, do they just hide a bunch of documents or what? Or black out the child’s name on everything? It would be illegal to do so, but how are these things handled? Keeping secrets from parents will be extremely difficult. This says nothing about human error as well. Teachers are a bit unsophisticated and I’m sure would accidentally tell the parents all the time.

Since we are already splitting hairs lets get microscopic.

95% of the time a kid who is LGBTQ has parents who know. Accepting or not the conversations are happening at home.

The final 5% of the time, a kid comes from a family that is out and out homophobic. They in a moment of need tell another adult they trust, a teacher, or a councilor. Those adults are safe from repercussions keeping the gender of this child secret from their parents as a means to protect their health and safety.

Teachers may be unsophisticated, but more than ever they are charged with the task of social work for kids who have abusive or negligent parents. admit it or not, these teachers care about the well being and safety of their students. In fact, for kids under 16, they know more about the parents then you would care for. It just comes with the job.

let me ask you this?
If a kid pulls you aside at work and says don't tell my parents about my gender because I fear harm, and you know these parents are unhinged because they spam you with threats about the woke agenda through out the school year, do you tell those parents?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by 110%

What happens when a parent of a 7 year old trans child submits a FOIP request for all records about their child? If the school just goes along with a name change for this student, do they just hide a bunch of documents or what? Or black out the child’s name on everything? It would be illegal to do so, but how are these things handled? Keeping secrets from parents will be extremely difficult. This says nothing about human error as well. Teachers are a bit unsophisticated and I’m sure would accidentally tell the parents all the time.

Surely any official records would use the student's legal name, not the chosen name they wish their teachers and classmates to use when addressing them.

This isn't a hard problem. Even when I was a student 30+ years ago, I had several classmates who, for a variety of different reasons, asked that they be addressed by a name other than their legal first name. Usually it was easily resolved on the first day of class:

Teacher, taking attendance while reading the list of students assigned to their class: "John Smith?"
John: "Yeah, that's me. My full name is actually John Smith Jr., but nobody uses that name. Everyone in my family calls me 'JR' so they don't confuse me with my father. That's the name I prefer to use."
Teacher: "Okay, thanks JR."