2023/24 Blue Jays Off Season Thread

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Right there can't win a playoff game. This is like the Twins winning division titles and losing 17 in a row, they had to make changes.

We watch them 162, do any of us have any hope?

Would anybody had said Arizona had any hope?

Jays had better OPS, Average, Home Runs, and runs.

They also had better pitching stats across the board.

The Jays do need some changes and a shake up but honeslty the 2022 and 2023 season couldn't have been more different even if they had similar outcomes.

[KelVarnsen]

But Gurriel/Moreno for Varsho trade is beyond terrible. Atkins traded away a franchise C for whatever Varsho is.

That alone should get him canned.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Would anybody had said Arizona had any hope?

Jays had better OPS, Average, Home Runs, and runs.

They also had better pitching stats across the board.

The Jays do need some changes and a shake up but honeslty the 2022 and 2023 season couldn't have been more different even if they had similar outcomes.

Arizona is rebuilding, they're actually just ahead of schedule with this run but there's a lot of talent there and they play the right way. We don't watch enough NL baseball so we don't see this. And the Diamondbacks have always been known for defense even when they were losing 100 games. Gurriel defended much better there, because someone taught him how to.

The Jays are not rebuilding, they're supposed to be there already. The Jays already got passed by Baltimore's rebuild.

I think the Jays problem is coaching and front office, not personnel. So bringing in new guys is just shuffling the deck chairs. Yes, the two years were different. In 2022 you had hitters who the coaches couldn't teach how to defend and this year, you had fielders who the coaches couldn't teach how to hit. And then the boneheaded baserunning problems remain.

And the pitching was relatively injury free, which won't happen all the time.

[flamingred89]

Alek Manoah posted on socials for the first time in a looong time. It was clips of him at the gym. Last off season it was always him out for dinner with his wife. Looks like message recieved.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by flamingred89

Alek Manoah posted on socials for the first time in a looong time. It was clips of him at the gym. Last off season it was always him out for dinner with his wife. Looks like message recieved.

Manoah back in shape would do wonders for this team. Heres to hoping.

[Roof-Daddy]

A Manoah bounce back would make the Jays rotation incredible from 1-5 on paper, and it would hedge against pitchers like Kikuchi or Berrios having off years again.

Combine that with the bullpen they have and pitching would be pretty set next season.

Hopefully snag a bat or two this off season, and also one or two (or more) Kirk, Vladdy, Springer and Varsho bounce back closer to previous offensive performances.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

A Manoah bounce back would make the Jays rotation incredible from 1-5 on paper, and it would hedge against pitchers like Kikuchi or Berrios having off years again.

Combine that with the bullpen they have and pitching would be pretty set next season.

Hopefully snag a bat or two this off season, and also one or two (or more) Kirk, Vladdy, Springer and Varsho bounce back closer to previous offensive performances.

Yeah, if they can replace Ryu and his $20MM internally that frees up cash. Most of that should be available to upgrade the bats. Although if you don't want a downgrade at 3B Chapman gets a big raise as well. It would be nice to add a bat to the outfield - Teoscar seems like an obvious choice...

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by flamingred89

Alek Manoah posted on socials for the first time in a looong time. It was clips of him at the gym. Last off season it was always him out for dinner with his wife. Looks like message recieved.

Is Kirk working out too?

[bluejays]

Re: Manoah, I think it’s more complicated than we think. His pitching ability was off, he lost his confidence, ego wasn’t in check, and his weight never adjusted to the pitch clock. Changing any one of those things is hard enough but to change all them is a tall order. For that reason I don’t think the Jays can depend on it happening. They have to sign a #3 and hope he can bump someone into the bullpen.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

A Manoah bounce back would make the Jays rotation incredible from 1-5 on paper, and it would hedge against pitchers like Kikuchi or Berrios having off years again.

Combine that with the bullpen they have and pitching would be pretty set next season.

Hopefully snag a bat or two this off season, and also one or two (or more) Kirk, Vladdy, Springer and Varsho bounce back closer to previous offensive performances.

Nah, not bounce back Varsho needs a break out. He hasn't had anything to bounce back from. Varsho would have to breakout for that trade to even become semi-palpable. His career BA is 229.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Karl

Nah, not bounce back Varsho needs a break out. He hasn't had anything to bounce back from. Varsho would have to breakout for that trade to even become semi-palpable. His career BA is 229.

He will provide plus defense in CF next season and plus baserunning. He just needs to be a close league average bat and he will provide tons of value.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

He will provide plus defense in CF next season and plus baserunning. He just needs to be a close league average bat and he will provide tons of value.

Agreed, but it's still a tall ask. Being an OF, personally I believe he has to provide some level of power too. Rogers Centre is a hitters park. The best thing ideally would be to move on from Varsho. An average defender will do, but you have to bring in above average bat and some power in that position. Bellinger totally fits the bill to a tee, but given his name, resurgence, and crappy FA year, his contract will be a monster one (and wouldn't make sense to do that). So you probably have to make a creative trade, and with all the prospect capital previously spent, Vlad's name would have to be in there I'd think. What an uphill battle they have here.

[GirlySports]

Are there no Buffalo options for Center field? How much worse of a batter would Lukes be than Varsho if you gave him a full year?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Are there no Buffalo options for Center field? How much worse of a batter would Lukes be than Varsho if you gave him a full year?

I don't think you realize how good Varsho projects as a CFer

He will be the full time CFer next season

The Jays need to sign or trade for a corner OF who can mash plus it would be nice if Springer posted a .850~ OPS again.

[KelVarnsen]

I don’t think you realize how bad Varsho projects as a hitter

[jayswin]

This has been fun watching an absolutely absurd number of former flames and jays just tearing it up on other teams.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

I don’t think you realize how bad Varsho projects as a hitter

The guy had his worst year of his career as a hitter and still put up 2.1 fWAR and 3.9 bWAR lol

And that was playing primarily left field. He projects better as a CFer

And he if he were to bounce back to being a league average hitter he'd bring even more value. He was 85 wRC+ this past season, that's not leaps and bounds from being 100 wRC+

People act like he's Bradley Zimmer or something, it's pretty hilarious the typical over reactions, especially with Moreno doing well in Arizona.

[flambers]

Varsho is an excellent defensive fielder, Jays organization has to hope he bounces back offensively.

However, he is not the only player that was "off"

Jays also need to add power to the lineup

It was an issue all season,

[KelVarnsen]

I just don’t see Varsho as a good hitter. Watching him at the plate doesn’t give me any confidence in his swing.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The guy had his worst year of his career as a hitter and still put up 2.1 fWAR and 3.9 bWAR lol

And that was playing primarily left field. He projects better as a CFer

And he if he were to bounce back to being a league average hitter he'd bring even more value. He was 85 wRC+ this past season, that's not leaps and bounds from being 100 wRC+

People act like he's Bradley Zimmer or something, it's pretty hilarious the typical over reactions, especially with Moreno doing well in Arizona.

I don’t think it is an overreaction at all. Moreno is hitting 3rd in the lineup, slugging .500 in the playoffs with 4 dingers and is a big contributor for a team playing in the World Series. That is about as bad as it gets in year one of evaluating this trade.