Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Bill Bumface]

I've statistically been changing naked with 50 year old gay dudes around my whole life. Why didn't people think of me, the children, 30 years ago??

1. There is no way to divide up bathrooms into groups so you'll never have someone naked in the same room as someone they could be sexually attracted to.

2. I've never seen a guy walking around with a boner in the change room in my entire life, so do we even have a problem resulting from #1?

3. If you really give a crap about this stuff, build non-gendered facilities with private changing booths/showers I guess.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I've statistically been changing naked with 50 year old gay dudes around my whole life. Why didn't people think of me, the children, 30 years ago??

1. There is no way to divide up bathrooms into groups so you'll never have someone naked in the same room as someone they could be sexually attracted to.

2. I've never seen a guy walking around with a boner in the change room in my entire life, so do we even have a problem resulting from #1?

3. If you really give a crap about this stuff, build non-gendered facilities with private changing booths/showers I guess.

4. Everyone will be exposed to all forms of genitalia at some point so we should just get it done with at an early age and frequently to eliminate any stigma and discomfort. We won't need to segregate at all and we can walk around naked in any public place.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I have no issue pointing out how stupid it is to vote for Danielle Smith. Yes, it's a democracy, but that doesn't excuse ignoring her many many faults to cast a vote for her because she's wearing the colour people have always voted for. Some elections call for an absolute halt of that sort of #### to protect our democracy and it matters a lot less how you feel about the other side.


Now we all wear the UCP and watch as they take away our rights while telling us they are protecting them. So no, I don't have any problem insulting UCP voters for what they've done to the rest of us, because it will always be far far worse than me calling them a smelly head.

Everybody (everybody who voted IMO) has a right to complain about things without a doubt. It's a democracy and we can voice our opinions on things for sure. But what your complaining about can be described as just politics and the reality of the situation in AB, but the same thing happens elsewhere. When it's not your side or my side or whoever's team that doesn't win, we get upset. It's how it is. It's not like Smith is completely different then who we know her as and she did win an election recently.

A topic for another thread but I feel like you, but at the federal level. My concern is why does MY side suck so bad and why do they campaign so poor when its obvious to me.

I go back to my original point that the AB NDP can continue to grow in Alberta but only if they expand their footprint to include rural areas by adopting an old school NDP approach. Having seats in Edmonton and Calgary won't last for long since your leaving in essence huge swaths of the province without a seat at the table.

The federal Conservatives have the reverse problem with the 3 largest cities in Canada and they need to correct that, where it would inconceivable that the American Republicans would shut out out of large American cities.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Everybody (everybody who voted IMO) has a right to complain about things without a doubt. It's a democracy and we can voice our opinions on things for sure. But what your complaining about can be described as just politics and the reality of the situation in AB, but the same thing happens elsewhere. When it's not your side or my side or whoever's team that doesn't win, we get upset. It's how it is. It's not like Smith is completely different then who we know her as and she did win an election recently.

A topic for another thread but I feel like you, but at the federal level. My concern is why does MY side suck so bad and why do they campaign so poor when its obvious to me.

I go back to my original point that the AB NDP can continue to grow in Alberta but only if they expand their footprint to include rural areas by adopting an old school NDP approach. Having seats in Edmonton and Calgary won't last for long since your leaving in essence huge swaths of the province without a seat at the table.

The federal Conservatives have the reverse problem with the 3 largest cities in Canada and they need to correct that, where it would inconceivable that the American Republicans would shut out out of large American cities.

The NDP are not going to win a riding outside of cities/urban areas. It just isn't going to happen. The Conservative way is just too far ingrained, and the NDP would need a huge swing.


My issue with Smith being different is that Canadians should know better, after watching what Trump did, than to vote for a lying deceitful weasel who lied and deceived her way through 6 months of being premier so we knew exactly what she was. How can anyone possibly support a leader who doesn't consult experts in their field, but instead takes the views of shamed disgraced doctors? Someone who has told us how she plans on dismantling our healthcare system? Someone who thought she had pardon powers? So my issue is that either voters happily ignored this because she wore blue, which makes them incompetent voters who don't deserve respect, or they voted for her knowing full well how deficient she is for the job, which makes them responsible for what we get, and I have no problem calling them out on it.


The next time an NDP premier gets in and spends our tax dollars on a Cancer Centre, feel free to shame me for voting for something so stupid.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

That’d a be a pretty neat trick considering legally Unions aren’t allowed to make contributions to political parties in Alberta. (Since you’re having trouble keeping up it’s probably worth pointing out to you that the NDP put that into law)



Again, legally they wouldn’t be allowed to do so even if they wanted to. Bonus points to you for using a non-partisan Union like Teamsters Canada as your example. It really helps illustrate to people reading this exactly how misinformed you are on this subject.



I’m inclined to agree with you. But while we’re on the subject if you had to guess, which party do you think that those top executives and wealthy Albertans would be most likely to give gifts(bribes) to now that the UCP has removed the $200 cap on that?

Basically my assessment of your post is that despite you claiming to be “familiar” with it, you don’t really know what bill 32 is do you? Otherwise you would have certainly made at least some references to it in your post rather than opting to make bizarre misinformed vague statements that don’t really have anything to do with it.

I am not going to debate you on campaign and pre-campaign financing rules. The NDP and the UCP don't just get their funds from grandma's and $5 donations. This is big business, at least for Canada. The NDP was out funding the UCP for a long long time, it wasn't an overwhelming amount of small, individual donors. It was dollars from people, businesses, backed organized labour assisting directly or indirectly with funds and with organizational support.

You make this seem like the NDP law banning Union donations and the cap being removed from the UCP like dollars aren't flowing into their pockets. Do you recall massive protests from organized labour after the NDP blocked union donations? Alberta Federation of Labour calling for Notley's head ? CUPE talking about NDP corruption and being hamstrung ? Probably not cause they can get their dollars to flow, just like the conservatives can as well.

There isn't CRA level financial forensic auditing here with campaigns either through 3rd party or directly. Everybody says we should get rid of donations and big money in politics but these parties aren't raising millions with my $10 donation and your $22 baked goods sale at your local CA office.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The NDP are not going to win a riding outside of cities/urban areas. It just isn't going to happen. The Conservative way is just too far ingrained, and the NDP would need a huge swing.


My issue with Smith being different is that Canadians should know better, after watching what Trump did, than to vote for a lying deceitful weasel who lied and deceived her way through 6 months of being premier so we knew exactly what she was. How can anyone possibly support a leader who doesn't consult experts in their field, but instead takes the views of shamed disgraced doctors? Someone who has told us how she plans on dismantling our healthcare system? Someone who thought she had pardon powers? So my issue is that either voters happily ignored this because she wore blue, which makes them incompetent voters who don't deserve respect, or they voted for her knowing full well how deficient she is for the job, which makes them responsible for what we get, and I have no problem calling them out on it.


The next time an NDP premier gets in and spends our tax dollars on a Cancer Centre, feel free to shame me for voting for something so stupid.

Perhaps you have confused me for someone else, no time did I shame you for the Cancer Center??? If the AB NDP won't go for rural votes, that's a serious problem for NDP voters and fan's. You can't just go after 2 big cities and hope for the best, that's not a long term strategy that leads to winning, and if it does, at best a minority or a short 4 year term.

The NDP NEEDS to change their strategy as they have lost 2 very winnable elections vs very unpopular Premiers. If the sports equivalent was losing 2 championships to very bad teams, the inner analysis needs to occur. You can't say **** the refs and everybody is a moron cause it doesn't deal with the issue.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I am not going to debate you on campaign and pre-campaign financing rules. The NDP and the UCP don't just get their funds from grandma's and $5 donations. This is big business, at least for Canada. The NDP was out funding the UCP for a long long time, it wasn't an overwhelming amount of small, individual donors. It was dollars from people, businesses, backed organized labour assisting directly or indirectly with funds and with organizational support.

You make this seem like the NDP law banning Union donations and the cap being removed from the UCP like dollars aren't flowing into their pockets. Do you recall massive protests from organized labour after the NDP blocked union donations? Alberta Federation of Labour calling for Notley's head ? CUPE talking about NDP corruption and being hamstrung ? Probably not cause they can get their dollars to flow, just like the conservatives can as well.

There isn't CRA level financial forensic auditing here with campaigns either through 3rd party or directly. Everybody says we should get rid of donations and big money in politics but these parties aren't raising millions with my $10 donation and your $22 baked goods sale at your local CA office.

Care to back any of this up with a shred of evidence?

I haven't dug into the big picture at all, but it is totally plausible to me that the NDP did this on the back of a lot of $200ish donations (which means $50 out of pocket). Get that from a decent chunk of teachers and nurses and doctors and you're set.


You know you can literally go to this website https://www.elections.ab.ca/finance/...ial-reporting/ and find the name of every donation, right? I found my own name. But it's probably still a conspiracy.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I am not going to debate you on campaign and pre-campaign financing rules. The NDP and the UCP don't just get their funds from grandma's and $5 donations. This is big business, at least for Canada. The NDP was out funding the UCP for a long long time, it wasn't an overwhelming amount of small, individual donors. It was dollars from people, businesses, backed organized labour assisting directly or indirectly with funds and with organizational support.

So do you have any proof to support your claim that Unions are sending “dollars to the ANDP and other left leaning parties”(slightly paraphrasing)? Even though they aren’t legally allowed to send dollars to any political party? Right now that statement is about as easily disproven as bizaro’s last post in this thread.

You make this seem like the NDP law banning Union donations and the cap being removed from the UCP like dollars aren't flowing into their pockets.

You make it seem like you have some sort of proof that this is occurring, if so please share that with us. If not, please stop bull####ting us.

Do you recall massive protests from organized labour after the NDP blocked union donations? Alberta Federation of Labour calling for Notley's head ? CUPE talking about NDP corruption and being hamstrung ? Probably not cause they can get their dollars to flow, just like the conservatives can as well.

I don’t recall any of those organizations making any significant complaints against the NDP. My theory is that it is because the NDP weren’t openly hostile towards them, I base that theory on the comparison of the actions of the governments that both preceded and followed them. You claim to be certain that they had other motives for not doing so which means you must have some hard evidence to support your claim. If that is the case please share your evidence with us. If not, please stop bull####ting us.

There isn't CRA level financial forensic auditing here with campaigns either through 3rd party or directly. Everybody says we should get rid of donations and big money in politics but these parties aren't raising millions with my $10 donation and your $22 baked goods sale at your local CA office.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at here, there ain’t no one paying $22 for anything baked by me because I’m just not that great of a baker. This isn’t more bull#### is it?

[Johnny Makarov]

Check out ole Angus over there in the Federal thread.... time for the slaughterhouse.

Why would Notley want to be associated with these idiots??

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Check out ole Angus over there in the Federal thread.... time for the slaughterhouse.

Why would Notley want to be associated with these idiots??

Because being associated with idiots has proven to be a winning strategy in this province?

[KelVarnsen]

Ignore Bertuzzied. You’ll feel better.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Ignore Bertuzzied. You’ll feel better.

Sewer water in the brain still? lol

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Check out ole Angus over there in the Federal thread.... time for the slaughterhouse.

Why would Notley want to be associated with these idiots??

Well this is exactly it. Logically speaking, how many Albertans are going to vote for a party where the federal party (that all the provincial members are members of), are pushing for oil and gas companies to not be allowed to advertise? And yet some people still think the name change doesn’t matter, or won’t sway enough votes. It’s astonishing really, that they somehow think this won’t resurface during the next election and cost them a pile of votes in the process.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

So do you have any proof to support your claim that Unions are sending “dollars to the ANDP and other left leaning parties”(slightly paraphrasing)? Even though they aren’t legally allowed to send dollars to any political party? Right now that statement is about as easily disproven as bizaro’s last post in this thread.



You make it seem like you have some sort of proof that this is occurring, if so please share that with us. If not, please stop bull####ting us.



I don’t recall any of those organizations making any significant complaints against the NDP. My theory is that it is because the NDP weren’t openly hostile towards them, I base that theory on the comparison of the actions of the governments that both preceded and followed them. You claim to be certain that they had other motives for not doing so which means you must have some hard evidence to support your claim. If that is the case please share your evidence with us. If not, please stop bull####ting us.



I’m not sure what you’re getting at here, there ain’t no one paying $22 for anything baked by me because I’m just not that great of a baker. This isn’t more bull#### is it?

This is all being done through 3rd party advertisements, similar to what happens with US style PAC money. This isn't rocket science if you just become calm and understand the messaging.

When we see an ad for "We can't afford more classroom cuts/ US style health care/public service cuts" etc. Who do you think is funding those? The complete opposite end of the political spectrum? Or do you think it's left wing political groups?

When you see an ad with a million children in a classroom and a teacher stressed out, who's funding that? The Calgary Police Association? Cenovus Energy? Calgary Flames?

When we see "We can't afford the Notley/Trudeau/Singh tax and spend team" Who's funding those ads? You think conservative political action committee's? I highly doubt it's people in the federal NDP/Liberal party looking to raise Trudeau and Singh's profile in AB.

All the scare tactics that happen in political advertising are done by groups who want their side to win.

UNIONS CAN donate to 3rd party advertisers, as long as they are Canadian Unions.

https://www.elections.ab.ca/politica...y-advertisers/

The issue with political rules is you can only make it harder for the other side to fundraise, but since everybody wants the money, it's got to be easy enough for people to vote to YOUR side.

This notion that NO UNION money, support, organization, technical knowhow, pressure and assistance does not make it's way to the NDP is laughable.

It's as laughable as the Conservatives who think big oil money, wealthy Albertan's and other people of influence are not supporting the UCP with their own 3rd party advertising and UCP dollars.

Follow the money for everybody and you can see where the priorities are. It's literally politics 101 for everybody. If you donate cash and give the maximum, you get exposure. It's how it works.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by curves2000

This is all being done through 3rd party advertisements, similar to what happens with US style PAC money. This isn't rocket science if you just become calm and understand the messaging.

When we see an ad for "We can't afford more classroom cuts/ US style health care/public service cuts" etc. Who do you think is funding those? The complete opposite end of the political spectrum? Or do you think it's left wing political groups?

When you see an ad with a million children in a classroom and a teacher stressed out, who's funding that? The Calgary Police Association? Cenovus Energy? Calgary Flames?

When we see "We can't afford the Notley/Trudeau/Singh tax and spend team" Who's funding those ads? You think conservative political action committee's? I highly doubt it's people in the federal NDP/Liberal party looking to raise Trudeau and Singh's profile in AB.

All the scare tactics that happen in political advertising are done by groups who want their side to win.

UNIONS CAN donate to 3rd party advertisers, as long as they are Canadian Unions.

https://www.elections.ab.ca/politica...y-advertisers/

The issue with political rules is you can only make it harder for the other side to fundraise, but since everybody wants the money, it's got to be easy enough for people to vote to YOUR side.

This notion that NO UNION money, support, organization, technical knowhow, pressure and assistance does not make it's way to the NDP is laughable.

It's as laughable as the Conservatives who think big oil money, wealthy Albertan's and other people of influence are not supporting the UCP with their own 3rd party advertising and UCP dollars.

Follow the money for everybody and you can see where the priorities are. It's literally politics 101 for everybody. If you donate cash and give the maximum, you get exposure. It's how it works.

What does any of that have to do with your bull#### claim that the NDP is receiving runs directly from Unions?

Your exact words:

Originally Posted by curves2000

Unions and their workers are sending dollars and organizational knowhow and messaging both loudly and quietly to the NDP and other left leaning parties.

Back that garbage up. Oh wait you can’t so now you’re trying to move the goalposts and talk about third party advertisers and PACs? Sounds like more bull#### to me.

If you disagree with any of that you’re welcome to enlighten us all as to why you think saying things you can’t back up and trying to pretend like you said something different when called out on it is acceptable but please spare us from any more bull#### if your thought process or programming will allow for that.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

What does any of that have to do with your bull#### claim that the NDP is receiving runs directly from Unions?

Your exact words:



Back that garbage up. Oh wait you can’t so now you’re trying to move the goalposts and talk about third party advertisers and PACs? Sounds like more bull#### to me.

If you disagree with any of that you’re welcome to enlighten us all as to why you think saying things you can’t back up and trying to pretend like you said something different when called out on it is acceptable but please spare us from any more bull#### if your thought process or programming will allow for that.

Are you getting Union dollars and messaging points to fight this fight? It's strange. I had a post about growing the NDP vote. Unions are backing the NDP in multiple ways, not the UCP. Your arguing semantics. I am out

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by curves2000

This is all being done through 3rd party advertisements, similar to what happens with US style PAC money. This isn't rocket science if you just become calm and understand the messaging.

When we see an ad for "We can't afford more classroom cuts/ US style health care/public service cuts" etc. Who do you think is funding those? The complete opposite end of the political spectrum? Or do you think it's left wing political groups?

When you see an ad with a million children in a classroom and a teacher stressed out, who's funding that? The Calgary Police Association? Cenovus Energy? Calgary Flames?

When we see "We can't afford the Notley/Trudeau/Singh tax and spend team" Who's funding those ads? You think conservative political action committee's? I highly doubt it's people in the federal NDP/Liberal party looking to raise Trudeau and Singh's profile in AB.

All the scare tactics that happen in political advertising are done by groups who want their side to win.

UNIONS CAN donate to 3rd party advertisers, as long as they are Canadian Unions.

https://www.elections.ab.ca/politica...y-advertisers/

The issue with political rules is you can only make it harder for the other side to fundraise, but since everybody wants the money, it's got to be easy enough for people to vote to YOUR side.

This notion that NO UNION money, support, organization, technical knowhow, pressure and assistance does not make it's way to the NDP is laughable.

It's as laughable as the Conservatives who think big oil money, wealthy Albertan's and other people of influence are not supporting the UCP with their own 3rd party advertising and UCP dollars.

Follow the money for everybody and you can see where the priorities are. It's literally politics 101 for everybody. If you donate cash and give the maximum, you get exposure. It's how it works.

How much do you think political ad time on Canadian radio or tv broadcasters costs?

These aren’t primo Super Bowl spots.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Wormius

How much do you think political ad time on Canadian radio or tv broadcasters costs?

These aren’t primo Super Bowl spots.

I agree, I don't think it's very expensive. The total amount of political spending in dollars isn't very high, this isn't the US. All political parties together only spend a few million each campaign. We have limits here.

I will steer my comments back to the original thought process of the NDP and their success in Edmonton. Get back to supporting working people and the little guy and expand on that in other places. As I had said before, Edmonton isn't a progressive powerhouse city that cultivates progressives while Calgary is a hick town. Edmonton is just more blue collar, union and government town.

The fact that the NDP has strong union and government employee support in Edmonton is rooted in fact. Some posters are pretending that has absolutely nothing to do with their success in Edmonton, as if it's like political magic and Edmonton is the heart beat of progressive policy in western Canada or something.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Are you getting Union dollars and messaging points to fight this fight? It's strange. I had a post about growing the NDP vote. Unions are backing the NDP in multiple ways, not the UCP. Your arguing semantics. I am out

Fight? Oh you poor thing, you’re giving yourself far too much credit.

You think it’s strange for someone to call out bull#### when they see it? I think it’s desperately necessary in today’s world, and especially in this province.

Lastly if you want to resort to making unfounded insinuations about my motivation for calling you out on it you’re free to do so but keep in mind I’m also free to point that it’s just more bull#### from you. I can’t wrap my head around why you’ve been so insistent on convincing people that you don’t know what you’re talking but I respect your sudden decision to run away with your tail tucked between your legs.

Better luck next time.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by curves2000

The fact that the NDP has strong union and government employee support in Edmonton is rooted in fact. Some posters are pretending that has absolutely nothing to do with their success in Edmonton, as if it's like political magic and Edmonton is the heart beat of progressive policy in western Canada or something.

Can you clarify which posters you’re referring to so we can confirm what this is? Oh wait no posters have said anything even remotely close to what you’re claiming. More bull#### confirmed.

If you’re a gambler my guess is that casinos must absolutely love you.