BC Lags Behind Other Provinces in Life Satisfaction

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The former, of course, was Justin Trudeau. The latter was Pierre Poilievre. You may or may not agree with Trudeau's response, but at least he put some thought into the issue. Poilievre completely ignored any complexity and nuance to a very complicated issue while committing a textbook begging the question logical fallacy.

Without a doubt, Trudeau is a good speaker and can be very eloquent especially with prepared remarks and when properly coached on a matter but that doesn't necessarily equate to dealing with issues in a thoughtful manner as exhibited by many poorly planned policy decisions and scandals. He's a smooth talker without a lot of substance.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I'm sorry, but "conservative" don't mean what it used to. That's just not true

The fiscal component of conservatism has been absent for decades but the perception remains in conservative voters' minds. The UCP blew $1.3B on a pipeline to nowhere? Never mind, the NDP would have done something far worse like spending $160k on changing lightbulbs.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Without a doubt, Trudeau is a good speaker and can be very eloquent especially with prepared remarks and when properly coached on a matter.

An aside to the entirety of the above post but the fact the conservative supporters trot this sort of horse #### out every time there is a well-spoken, intelligent non-Conservative politician to explain why they're not actually that well spoken is something I particularly enjoy. A canned response about how someone isn't as good as we think they are because they have canned or coached responses.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Locke

What is going on in Society?

Pre-Covid I identified as a Conservative. Simply because I wanted our Social Services and Social Programs to be solvent and remain able to serve people.

I was not, nor ever have been, 'Socially Conservative.' Merely fiscally.

People can do what they want.

But we're seeing the rise in demand of this kind of thing all over the world. America, South America, Brexit, Italy, France barely dodged it, Eastern Europe...

This is a very disturbing trend.

And what happens when these parties/people cannot get the results they are promising? what's next? it doesnt look good.

It's only going to get worse too. Inflation, rising prices, immigration/asylum. All these issues are trending upwards as a result of 3rd world growth and climate change.

When PP's simple solutions don't fix the problem, where do these people turn?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

An aside to the entirety of the above post but the fact the conservative supporters trot this sort of horse #### out every time there is a well-spoken, intelligent non-Conservative politician to explain why they're not actually that well spoken is something I particularly enjoy. A canned response about how someone isn't as good as we think they are because they have canned or coached responses.

Have you not listened to him when he tries to answer questions from media or regular people or when he starts talking off the cuff? In those situations he is far from polished and as well spoken.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Have you not listened to him when he tries to answer questions from media or regular people or when he starts talking off the cuff? In those situations he is far from polished and as well spoken.

Unshockingly, as a Canadian, yes I have listened to our Prime Minister being put on the spot on a regular basis, especially over the last 4 years when he was the face of the pandemic and since then when he is constantly ambushed and put on the spot by people who hate him.


Are his off the cuff responses as polished? No. They're also not by any means not well spoken or on message.

[Fuzz]

If you can't sell bull#### as well as Smith, I guess you have no business being in politics. Because what we really want from a leader is someone who can smoothly sell you a punch in the face, and then get you to smile while asking for another one.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Is this the Canadian political thread 2.0 now?
We definitely needed another place to bash/defend JT or PP.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Is this the Canadian political thread 2.0 now?
We definitely needed another place to bash/defend JT or PP.

I think it veered off in that Rustad is very much piggy backing on the federal CPC popularity and his use of similar dog whistles and sound bites.

As a relative newcomer to BC I have had to do a lot of digging into what exactly each party is bringing and doing, and you can quickly see a lot of the similarities.

The NDP here hasn't been perfect on all fronts, I think the opiod crisis is very real, but also very complicated to deal with. The NDP are adjusting strategies and trying to find humane solutions as opposed to just increasing the jail count.

On housing I have seen a lot of positive legislation being passed and it seems over the last couple years a lot of work has been done by the provincial government to deal with housing. They have better plans and ideas that have a lot of merit.

The conservatives just seem to be using the same playbook of "the NDP is destroying BC", "we need a common sense approach", "Communists!", but not really putting up a platform with any sense of ability to deal with complex issues. This has been PPs playbook for years now, attack, attack, attack but not really give a proper viable alternative. You see it with the "axe the tax". Ok great, no more consumer carbon tax, but also no plan on what he would do to get our emissions down or even recognize that there is a climate emergency.

The problem is that life and governments, both provincially and federally are not nearly as bad as the social media is pumping it out to be. Most of the issues can be traced to factors outside of the governments control, or to areas where if the government tried to give more control we would see complaints about the free market.

Some real good comments were made earlier about how solutions are too complex for the regular joe to see them working or to understand them. Its really easy to blame the government for lack of jobs or wages, but then the same conservatives saying how bad of a job the government is doing, will be the first to complain about a minimum wage hike, or stricter regulations on AirBnBs or environmental protections, claiming it should be smaller government. As if trusting the corporations who are abusing the middle class will suddenly act better with less oversight.

But people are eating up the outrage machine. I saw it in Alberta and bailed, now I am seeing it here and it is full on Federally. My hope is that unlike the majority of Albertans, the majority of Canadians/BCers won't continued to be fooled for more than one term with these jokers.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I do think this phenomenon is reaching its peak though and we'll see a movement back to the middle in politics soon. There's a growing number of people feeling completely missed by either side. I'm hopeful at least.

That presumes that this is a "both sides" issue, when it isn't for the most part. The moderate parties that are generally acting sane and responsible (i.e. NDP in BC and Alberta, Democrats in the US, etc.) are the ones who are underperforming where they should be based on the fundamentals. If people want centrism, it's still there. But the right is increasingly being captured by populists.

I mean, it's not a partisan obersvation that the mainstream right is straying way further to the extreme than their opponents are. Compare the last few NDP leaders vs. their opposition:

Adrian Dix -> John Horgan -> David Eby; 3 people who are broadly similar. Horgan has a bit more appeal to the working class, but their policies and beliefs are all relatively similar. Compare that to their opposition:

Christy Clark -> Kevin Falcon -> John Rustad; there you have a centre-right leader in Clark, who aligns with the federal Liberals, Falcon who aligns with the federal Conservatives, and then Rustad, who is ideologically aligned what were once the most fringe elements of the right.

Or the US; compare Obama -> Clinton -> Biden -> Harris vs. McCain -> Romney -> Trump. There's absolutely no comparison between the two sides in terms of who is veering towards extremism.

[Locke]

Can we saw off BC like Bugs Bunny sawing off Florida?

Then Alberta would have access to Tide Water!

[KelVarnsen]

I rather saw off Alberta

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I think it veered off in that Rustad is very much piggy backing on the federal CPC popularity and his use of similar dog whistles and sound bites.

Right you are, Ken.

Originally Posted by belsarius

As a relative newcomer to BC I have had to do a lot of digging into what exactly each party is bringing and doing, and you can quickly see a lot of the similarities.

The NDP here hasn't been perfect on all fronts, I think the opiod crisis is very real, but also very complicated to deal with. The NDP are adjusting strategies and trying to find humane solutions as opposed to just increasing the jail count.

On housing I have seen a lot of positive legislation being passed and it seems over the last couple years a lot of work has been done by the provincial government to deal with housing. They have better plans and ideas that have a lot of merit.

In the seven years since they took control of the legislature, they have been the single best government at fulfilling election promises in recent Canadian memory, not just BC. Both Horgan and Eby have done a magnificent job at keeping their end of the bargain while also making hard decisions and explaining to the people of BC why they had to be made. Mistakes have been made along the way, but they're mistakes that the NDP were willing to admit didn't work and find a new course.

Originally Posted by belsarius

The conservatives just seem to be using the same playbook of "the NDP is destroying BC", "we need a common sense approach", "Communists!", but not really putting up a platform with any sense of ability to deal with complex issues. This has been PPs playbook for years now, attack, attack, attack but not really give a proper viable alternative. You see it with the "axe the tax". Ok great, no more consumer carbon tax, but also no plan on what he would do to get our emissions down or even recognize that there is a climate emergency.

BCC, BCL and BCU have all had the same pattern in those seven years. Say how bad everything is, even when most things were very obviously going well (well being relative). None of the above parties have been able to explain what, exactly, is bad or why it's bad, just merely that it is bad. This is, of course, until the past two years, as COVID lock downs and restrictions came to an end, when people started to notice how bad the opioid and homeless problems were. They were really bad all the way through COVID, but no one was around to notice. In trying to combat this, the NDP have been fought tooth and nail by the city of Vancouver. They also attempted something that, while successful in other countries, should have been done more slowly with knowledge that both the people of Vancouver are NIMBY by nature and that their political opponents would pounce on it if it didn't work. Short term, it was a disaster. Long term, we'll never know. The science and medical reasoning behind what they attempted works, but this is not a city that has ever been willing to suffer short term for long term benefit (see things as basic as earthquake preparedness in a city waiting for a major fault shift event). Attempting to just go whole hog into full decriminalization the the rope. And it's now a rope they may hang from.

Originally Posted by belsarius

The problem is that life and governments, both provincially and federally are not nearly as bad as the social media is pumping it out to be. Most of the issues can be traced to factors outside of the governments control, or to areas where if the government tried to give more control we would see complaints about the free market.

The BC NDP have had seven years of fantastic governance following what was close to twenty years of the BC Liberals bleeding this province and its services dry. They have all but undone the political scorched earth legacy that Glen Clarke and Mike Harcourt created that the BC Liberals were able to use to pummel the NDP for about 15 years. The economy, wages, housing and other issues you have spoken about are not really what is making this election close. Most people know John Rustad is full of #### on these things. They still may end up voting for him.

The issue is that David Eby has a weak spot on the public safety portfolio. Whether it's real or imagined his past work, past political statements, and past attempts to fix the issue are currently weighing him down. It's at the forefront. It's in the news every day. It's in the streets when people walk around any of the major metro areas in BC. It's in the businesses. It's a very easy thing to attack, even if it's not all directly the province's responsibility.

Originally Posted by belsarius

But people are eating up the outrage machine..

I agree and the main issue that is causing a lot of this has so much nuance and while it hasn't been ignored by the BC NDP what they have tried so far has not exactly worked.

It's very easy to get outraged when you walk out of where you live and don't feel safe. Whether it's because of personal first hand experience, reading about an awful story not far from where you live or just the general uneasiness of being around people who due to one mental health issue or another are unpredictable and thus not safe to be around.

I agree that given time the BC NDP are likely to find a way to work on this positively because they have shown on so many other issues that given time they are problem solvers. But this issue, in an election year is devastating. And I have a hard time being upset with some of the people being outraged over it.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

I rather saw off Alberta

More difficult being land-locked and whatnot.

I say we become part of the Bahamas. They seem chill enough.

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by Locke

More difficult being land-locked and whatnot.

I say we become part of the Bahamas. They seem chill enough.

Saw off USA and Alberta then

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The voting public seem to be increasingly unwilling to acknowledge difficult policy tradeoffs.

Why can’t the government just increase health care capacity without raising taxes? How hard can it be?

This is the housing crisis in a nutshell.

There will be winners and losers, regardless of the policy. So status quo is maintained

[Locke]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Saw off USA and Alberta then

We shall form our own Nation of the Alberta Arctic!

[rubecube]

I actually ended up voting for the Greens today. I'm in a pretty safe NDP/Green riding, so not really worried about a vote-split. Furstineau is running in my riding and I much prefer her to my current MLA, who has really done nothing of note while in office and pretty much ignores all correspondence from her constituents.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I actually ended up voting for the Greens today. I'm in a pretty safe NDP/Green riding, so not really worried about a vote-split. Furstineau is running in my riding and I much prefer her to my current MLA, who has really done nothing of note while in office and pretty much ignores all correspondence from her constituents.

So...not Kodos?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I actually ended up voting for the Greens today. I'm in a pretty safe NDP/Green riding, so not really worried about a vote-split. Furstineau is running in my riding and I much prefer her to my current MLA, who has really done nothing of note while in office and pretty much ignores all correspondence from her constituents.

My riding is overwhelmingly NDP as well. Might do the same as you. I want the Greens to have a voice, but not necessarily win. Not a fan of Eby either.