Brad Treliving needs to go

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Like I said, if I'm recalling correctly there was plenty of talk on this very board and in the media of the need for changes going back over the 2 year period. So people did notice something was off. Its not like everyone thought they were still flying high. I don't think its been at all unanimous that everyone wanted Gaudreau and Monahan to continue being the go to guys here.

I think Treliving has had plenty of time to see what has been unfolding in front of him and react accordingly.

While he has not managed to make the improvements many saw as necessary, I don't think Treliving can be faulted for not reacting accordingly. He made overtures to acquire Mark Stone, Nazem Kadri, Taylor Hall, Jason Zucker, Josh Anderson and Pierre Lucic Dubois. It is certainly fair to fault him for his inability to make changes, but I don't think anyone can legitimately say that Treliving was unaware of the need for change, nor unwilling to do anything about it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jacks

The fans might recognize that it would take several years of growing assets to emerge as a contender but team management certainly didn't think that way. I don't care if people want to blame Treliving or the owners but the team should be good by now, not getting worse.

I don't think anyone will disagree with this.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by timbit

Relating to Monahan and Gaudreau, the other issue is their current asset value.

Other teams have monitored the plunge they have taken, over the last 2 years.

That will certainly be reflected in the interest and the subsequent offers the Flames receive.

Added to the problem are stagnant and perhaps lowering salary caps ;Flames will have to take back similar salaries.

Bottom line, it is a disastrous time for , arguably, your top 2 forwards to literally fall flat on their faces.

I'm guessing we are stuck with Monahan which isn't the worst case. Especially if he really is injured right now and can be fixed.

There should still be a few teams that believe Johnny can be rehabilitated or that they can find a better way to use his skill set.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

While he has not managed to make the improvements many saw as necessary, I don't think Treliving can be faulted for not reacting accordingly. He made overtures to acquire Mark Stone, Nazem Kadri, Taylor Hall, Jason Zucker, Josh Anderson and Pierre Lucic Dubois. It is certainly fair to fault him for his inability to make changes, but I don't think anyone can legitimately say that Treliving was unaware of the need for change, nor unwilling to do anything about it.

Well that's really what it is. Awareness and execution are two different things. And at the end of the day, the same way its about results for the guys on the ice, its about results for the guys off it. No one in pro sports gets accolades for moves they almost made.

[DeluxeMoustache]

So the numbers basically are showing that

- just over half of people think Tre needs to go, roughly a quarter people believe he should stay and a quarter are uncertain
- general consensus is that he is sticking around (only ~20% of people think that he will be fired)

[timbit]

Originally Posted by chedder

I'm guessing we are stuck with Monahan which isn't the worst case. Especially if he really is injured right now and can be fixed.

There should still be a few teams that believe Johnny can be rehabilitated or that they can find a better way to use his skill set.

You may be correct but the Flames will be taking back some deadbeat with similar salary and a draft pick , IMO.

It’s that kind of market and why he has not been traded yet.

[Burning Beard]

I get that he wanted to give the core another chance after Colorado. I also get that Covid made trades near impossible, but ultimately this is on Treliving so I chose that he should be fired but won't be as he just signed a fat new contract. At some point he needs to be getting deals done instead of "close" to so many deals.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's been over two years ... they've had Lindholm back and it still doesn't work.

My point though is ... did you see that coming?

Because that's the crux of issue with this team stalling.

But based on this every GM is beyond reproach for their teams. Hell we all ride Sutter as a bad GM, but can we have known Olli Jokinen would turn out so poorly?
Ultimately aren't GM's judged by the things they accomplish and decide upon rather than the fans ability to empathize with said trades, at the time?

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by chedder

I'm guessing we are stuck with Monahan which isn't the worst case. Especially if he really is injured right now and can be fixed.

There should still be a few teams that believe Johnny can be rehabilitated or that they can find a better way to use his skill set.

There's no need to rehabilitate. Put gaudreau on any current playoff team's top or second line gives that team an explosive top 6.

Gaudreau has been good this year. He'll never be the guy to carry a team on his own, which is what he's been asked to do even more so this year.

There are very very few players who can generate high danger scoring chances all by themselves. Gaudreau is one of those guys. If it weren't for the covid nhl economic lockdown teams are feeling, I think gaudreau would have been a MASSIVE chip this deadline, especially given that he has 1 more year.

Standard, cursed, ill fortunes Flames franchise woes continued...

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't see why not.

While an interesting fact, the number of homegrown players in your top 10 scoring is not a measurement of success in the competitive world of professional sports. It feels like a measurement you seek out to support an established position vs. some principled approach to team evaluation.

After seven years can't we measure his performance in terms of whether they are on the right path to contending, at a very minimum?

Even the metric makes little sense in terms of BT. He gets credit for Backlund being on the team but not Lindholm?

[timbit]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

There's no need to rehabilitate. Put gaudreau on any current playoff team's top or second line gives that team an explosive top 6.

Gaudreau has been good this year. He'll never be the guy to carry a team on his own, which is what he's been asked to do even more so this year.

There are very very few players who can generate high danger scoring chances all by themselves. Gaudreau is one of those guys. If it weren't for the covid nhl economic lockdown teams are feeling, I think gaudreau would have been a MASSIVE chip this deadline, especially given that he has 1 more year.

Standard, cursed, ill fortunes Flames franchise woes continued...

To reiterate , he is currently 176th in Even Strength Scoring, in the NHL.

Massive chip? Good this year? Very doubtful.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by timbit

To reiterate , he is currently 176th in Even Strength Scoring, in the NHL.

Massive chip? Good this year? Very doubtful.

He's playing on a garbage team with garbage linemates.

He's been on offensive catalyst every season. I think anyone who watches this team would come to that conclusion pretty quickly, scouts included.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

He's playing on a garbage team with garbage linemates.

He's been on offensive catalyst every season. I think anyone who watches this team would come to that conclusion pretty quickly, scouts included.

As he button hooks or holds onto the puck until someone takes it from him?
Scouts see that stuff too

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

He's playing on a garbage team with garbage linemates.



He's been on offensive catalyst every season. I think anyone who watches this team would come to that conclusion pretty quickly, scouts included.

Gaudreau has had maybe five stand-out games all season, and not because of his linemates. This year may be the worst he has looked over the course of his entire career.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Like I said, if I'm recalling correctly there was plenty of talk on this very board and in the media of the need for changes going back over the 2 year period. So people did notice something was off. Its not like everyone thought they were still flying high. I don't think its been at all unanimous that everyone wanted Gaudreau and Monahan to continue being the go to guys here.

I think Treliving has had plenty of time to see what has been unfolding in front of him and react accordingly.

Right but the playoff series was in April of 2019. The next season where there would be reasonable doubt for almost anyone was September 2019, and then the season was wiped out by March of 2020.

Since then it's not all that easy moving anyone even if you did want to move on.

There really isn't a window here, is there?

Now if you wanted them traded the summer of 2019 then sure, you'd be ahead of the curve, but that was the only window to move a key piece that we've seen really.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flame On

But based on this every GM is beyond reproach for their teams. Hell we all ride Sutter as a bad GM, but can we have known Olli Jokinen would turn out so poorly?
Ultimately aren't GM's judged by the things they accomplish and decide upon rather than the fans ability to empathize with said trades, at the time?

There are plenty of moves that teams make that fan bases oppose instantly.

There are plenty of moves that fan bases call for before the GM makes a move.

But I don't remember a huge swell of CP people thinking that Monahan and Gaudreau were headed for a sharp decline.

Do you?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

As he button hooks or holds onto the pook until someone takes it from him?
Scouts see that stuff too

Scouts also tend to notice who comes out of the corner with the puck.

[Bingo]

I think Johnny Gaudreau can and will be a dangerous complimentary player on a team that has a primary play driver he can team up with.

I think scouts will see that too.

But I don't see him returning to be the play driving force on a top line any more, I think the league has figured him out when the focus is on him almost entirely.

If he was playing with a legit star in their own right the split focus would make him more dangerous.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

As he button hooks or holds onto the pook until someone takes it from him?
Scouts see that stuff too

To be fair, if Gaudreau had a real threat on the other side or down the middle, and a supporting defenseman as another option, teams would not be able to key on him so shamelessly and the button-hook would be much more effective. If you recall my favourite Flame, Kristian Huselius, he basically played a similar style, but was very effective because he had Langkow going to the net, another threat on the other side, and Phaneuf in close support ready to unload that mother of a one-timer. When the QB has options, the other team cannot just blitz the QB and not worry about the receivers.
Gaudreau is obviously to blame as well for not changing things up and for his off-ice regimen and lifestyle, but he would be more effective if Monahan could still be a serious threat and defensemen were supporting the attack with speed. Another reason losing Brodie is vastly underestimated in terms of impact - he provided another puck carrying option (which this team badly, badly lacks) and had the speed and skill to play give-and-go, even if he is not much of a shooter. He was still very effective as an attacking force under Hartley.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Scouts also tend to notice who comes out of the corner with the puck.

Lucic?