Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[timun]

Originally Posted by edslunch

This. We always got an opt-out letter before they started a sexuality module in health. Now parents must opt in, and apparently (?) for every time it will be discussed, e.g. every day of the two-week (or whatever) module.

That's how it worked when I was in school 20+ years ago. You'd be sent home with an opt-out form, and if your parents were so inclined they could sign it and send it back and kids in that situation basically got a spare period or were told to study in the library.

I don't remember any of my classmates' parents opting them out of sex-ed. At least, not in high school. Might have been one girl; I had no idea she was a bible-thumper until she talked about how she didn't believe in evolution and would begrudgingly do the coursework in Bio 20 but wouldn't 'believe' it. Her parents might have opted her out of sex-ed...

[Mazrim]

Might as well bring back this post since the recent news reminded me of the election: https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=1670

So far 2 have left Alberta and 1 more is still considering (job hunting in some fields sucks right now). 1 who was considering leaving is staying here. I'm glad some people have the ability to move somewhere and try to surround themselves with a community that will support them.

[edslunch]

I watched Smith's follow-up press conference on parental choice, now reframed as protecting the ability for kids to make informed choices as adults by preventing them from making choices as children. I have to say it was a master class in deflection. She focused almost entirely on gender transition surgeries, their irreversible nature, and side effects and consequences that can go with them. Individuals should wait until they are adults before making such an important life-changing decision.

I think most people would be on side with that, or at least understand that position, and Smith stated that Alberta currently doesn't allow people under 18 to have transitional surgery. This, coupled with pledges of additional support and supportive words makes it a hard position to attack.

What it was though, was a smokescreen for more impactive parts of the policy. The pronoun issue has been talked to death but got barely a mention or question. Smith talked about every child deserving supportive parents and that the 'very few' cases of abuse can be addressed through Children's Services, but made no statement or acknowledgement about the hell many of these kids go through with their families.

The other big issue slipped in with the surgery Trojan horse is opt-in for sex ed. This is straight out of the conservative religious right playbook and will have serious consequences. Kids can choose to take a spare by not delivering the form to their parents, parents can out right refuse or more likely just not get around to submitting the form, particularly if their child isn't hounding them to sign up for this uncomfortable topic. Make no mistake, this is the nugget of gold in this policy for TBA and other like-minded folk. David Parker decries falling birth rates so apparently he'll make it up with unplanned pregnancies.

The chef's kiss was Smith responding to a reporter's question about opt in creating red tape for teachers: 'if indeed they are talking about sex every day then that shows why this policy is required'. F you Smith.

[Fuzz]

When Keenan Bexte was the first "media" caller, it was pretty clear we don't live in a functioning democracy anymore. She's calling the shots on who throws softballs to her.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by timun

Sigh... curves, you've go to be the single worst poster on CP for coming up with strawman arguments and total non-sequiturs that have NOTHING to do with what's going on. 85% of this post of yours is nonsense.

You've mischaracterized and invented fantasy scenarios that bear only a passing resemblance to reality. You're framing this argument as "the government" retaining info from parents, vs. keeping the parents informed: that's total BULL####. It's THE KIDS keeping info from their parents, not "random government administration". It's about the right of the KIDS to keep this information from their parents, and being able to confide in trusted teachers and friends.

Instead what the new bill is doing is INSERTING GOVERNMENT INTO IT, by ordering teachers to tell parents. Instead of allowing the kids the agency to make decisions about keeping their sexuality confidential—instead of allowing them a small glimmer of hope of being able to confide in a trusted adult at their school—that choice is taken away from them.

In effect, all it does is guarantee that those queer kids too afraid to tell their parents about it now have one less safe harbour.



You write "Parents will go to extreme lengths to assist and help their child, leaving no stone unturned," and I can't help but laugh. There are a lot of terrible parents out there. Boning somebody and front-poopin' a baby out nine months later doesn't make anyone an expert in anything. There are lots of parents of queer kids who've disowned them, sent 'em to "deprogramming" summer camps, or just tried to beat the gay out of 'em. Not every parent has their kid's best interests at heart.

Frankly you're a complete and utter idiot if you honestly believe that forcing teachers to out gay kids to their parents is "keeping government out of it": it's doing the exact opposite. Our UCP government are a bunch of hypocrites, and this policy is nothing but pandering to their socially-conservative base who are precisely the kinds of parents who'd disown or beat the #### out of their gay kids.

I very may well be an idiot and I will be the first to admit that I don't understand this topic to the same degree that some others do. I personally don't have any strong connection to this specific topic personally. Some do and that is why they are concerned/passionate about it.

I will say though, considering the national media exposure this has achieved, it's important to understand a few things that are also occurring in jurisdictions, jurisdictions where there are a larger body of evidence, perhaps more oversight and even more specialists. Considering Alberta spends the most per capita on healthcare in Canada and we don't have surgeons to perform these surgeries, we may not be in a position to be an expert on this topic.

In the EU and in a lot of very progressive countries, there have been a slowing down, reassessment and stricter controls on this type of care. Perhaps, just perhaps, there may be an even bigger level of over diagnoses that may be occurring medically. France has made sweeping changes to their treatment in this regard, including requiring parental consent.

The medical governing body in France WARNS that offering some of these treatments medically must done so in the greatest possible reserve. Official English translated documents from the French medical academy .

https://www.academie-medecine.fr/la-...cents/?lang=en

Other Euro countries are taking a more reserved approach https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuac...h=666e95af7efb

There are a lot more links, articles, medical opinions and so forth that go on and on for this debate for both sides. I really don't care or am bothered by this particular topic to the same degree some people. Your more than welcome to do your own searching if you wish.

I try to take a relaxed, middle ground approach to this like in Europe. In North America, we seem to be at each other's throat. Everything will work its self out. If this policy is WAY OFFSIDE with Albertans in all aspects, the political pressure will result in a change or change in government. If these changes run against specific legal concerns and legal challenges are brought up and the Government loses, then changes will need to be made.

One way or another things will workout but it may take time. Some aspects of these changes may be good or brutal depending on how some people feel. Some aspects of this will probably be changed or fine tuned or scrapped. Everybody has an opinion on this and not everybody, including myself have answers. Some people feel family Dr's should be heavily involved in these discussions while A LOT of countries in Europe take a medical approach along with a phycological approach. Yes, you need phycologists to sign off on this.


I realize that Alberta isn't Europe and vice versa but some people think parental consent, which was my initial post, is some radical concept from the Devil that is Danielle Smith and originated in Alberta.

[Harry Lime]

That last quote by Marlaina is one of the douchiest things I've heard in a while.

[Harry Lime]

Curves, I think that one of the main problems of this bill is that they used the medical aspect of transition to make a loud noise to muffle out the more insidious aspects of what was passed.

I think that most people would agree that any medical intervention on kids should be handled gently and with trepidation.

Almost everything else in this bill damages the welfare of children in favor of a very religious core family outlook that has no place in government policy.

This is the same reason, on a parliamentary level, that Freeland's bill was forced to break up into smaller parts, federally by the speaker. It's an omnibus type bill that tries to sneak in legislation. It's politics, and it's gross.

Split up, the medical parts would still pass, and the rest would be chewed to shreds.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by edslunch

This. We always got an opt-out letter before they started a sexuality module in health. Now parents must opt in, and apparently (?) for every time it will be discussed, e.g. every day of the two-week (or whatever) module.

Maybe this will backfire with kids being sent permission forms everyday asking their parents about sex

If I was a school board in protest I would write the permission slip in a manner that described the content of each class in detail. The kids would learn a good chunk of the content just by taking home the letter.

Topics discussed in tomorrow’s class will be about gender identity and how genders don’t always match the sex at birth ……. With one permission slip a day that’s a lot of content.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I

I try to take a relaxed, middle ground approach to this like in Europe. In North America, we seem to be at each other's throat. Everything will work its self out. If this policy is WAY OFFSIDE with Albertans in all aspects, the political pressure will result in a change or change in government. If these changes run against specific legal concerns and legal challenges are brought up and the Government loses, then changes will need to be made.

One way or another things will workout but it may take time. Some aspects of these changes may be good or brutal depending on how some people feel. Some aspects of this will probably be changed or fine tuned or scrapped. Everybody has an opinion on this and not everybody, including myself have answers. Some people feel family Dr's should be heavily involved in these discussions while A LOT of countries in Europe take a medical approach along with a phycological approach. Yes, you need phycologists to sign off on this.


I realize that Alberta isn't Europe and vice versa but some people think parental consent, which was my initial post, is some radical concept from the Devil that is Danielle Smith and originated in Alberta.

Since the vast majority of people are not affected at all by this bill this is no electoral drive to make any changes. Most families will not have trans kids. Many families with Trans kids will have an environment where the child will communicate with their parents. So it’s only the case where the children are uncomfortable telling their parents that any affect will occur. That’s such a small fraction of the population that there won’t be a drive to change.

There are likely more people vocally against trans people than trans people. It will be a long struggle to chain anything going forward because it’s such a minority issue. The conservative Nanny state is disheartening.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I realize that Alberta isn't Europe and vice versa

Man… do you?

Guy goes on one European vacation and suddenly his usual nonsense rants all start with “You know… in Europe…”

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by GGG

Maybe this will backfire with kids being sent permission forms everyday asking their parents about sex

If I was a school board in protest I would write the permission slip in a manner that described the content of each class in detail. The kids would learn a good chunk of the content just by taking home the letter.

Topics discussed in tomorrow’s class will be about gender identity and how genders don’t always match the sex at birth ……. With one permission slip a day that’s a lot of content.

You're assuming that kids actually look at the permission notes and read any of it. Also, if my kids are representative, many might forget to even pull the forms out of their backpack at home. I know that with my kids if the teacher doesn't send an email indicating there is a form to sign and we don't ask for it at home it will stay in the backpack for weeks crumpled up at the bottom.

[puffnstuff]

Apparently theres a new phone survey out thats targetting abortion.

Im sure itll be fine.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Apparently theres a new phone survey out thats targetting abortion.

Im sure itll be fine.

Geezus ####ing christ… Is there a way to abort Marlaina and her delusional band of UCP idiots?

[btimbit]

Major issues in this province like housing, healthcare, education, but rather than try to make lives better for all albertans they're choosing to make lives worse for certain albertans.

####ing joke

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Apparently theres a new phone survey out thats targetting abortion.

Im sure itll be fine.

I got the call. I don't usually answer surveys but it was about parental rights to be informed about and give/deny consent for an abortion for their child.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Apparently theres a new phone survey out thats targetting abortion.

Im sure itll be fine.

Got it earlier. Was a single question about minors and if they should have to get consent from parents for abortions.

[DownInFlames]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1753251877024837730

[Harry Lime]

So does this mean that they are fully aware that they just likely caused a tonne of teenage pregnancies with their reduced sex education?

[direwolf]

As a former Albertan, it's f***ing shameful and incredibly sad what my once beloved home province is turning into under this reprehensible piece of s*** government. What an absolute disaster. I'm so thankful to have left Alberta when I did.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Curves, I think that one of the main problems of this bill is that they used the medical aspect of transition to make a loud noise to muffle out the more insidious aspects of what was passed.

I think that most people would agree that any medical intervention on kids should be handled gently and with trepidation.

Almost everything else in this bill damages the welfare of children in favor of a very religious core family outlook that has no place in government policy.

This is the same reason, on a parliamentary level, that Freeland's bill was forced to break up into smaller parts, federally by the speaker. It's an omnibus type bill that tries to sneak in legislation. It's politics, and it's gross.

Split up, the medical parts would still pass, and the rest would be chewed to shreds.

We may be splitting hairs here but I don't believe this is or will be a government bill, so to speak. Some policy changes may be directives from the government and some aspects may be enshrined in law as a government bill. There are a few moving parts to this through education ministry, health, social services and more.

Am I in favor of this from Smith? As a non parent, parental rights seem logical and pragmatic to me. Some of the other stuff? Not really. Is some of this political? Absolutely but it's also political on the opposite side which is where I think some of the pushback may be coming on the right. Naturally when adults in the room can't agree, it's children that pay the price. It's sad but it's what happens in real life.

I think there is a LOT to learn from everybody on this across the board. I am the first to admit, I don't have answers, but neither do some other people. A lot of this explosion in people identifying as trans/ wanting gender reassignment surgery treatment etc is a fairly new situation for a lot of people. People in government, parents, students, medical professionals, historians are all trying to understand certain things.

You hear situations like in Sweden, a country that first allowed gender reassignment surgery in recent times, putting the brakes on certain aspects of their policy. A 1500% growth rate from 2008-2018 had people wondering what may be happening.

In the French material I referenced, they discuss an " epidemic-like phenomenon" This growth rate is something perplexing to a lot medical professionals. When a G7 medical organization writes something like that, it's an eye opener in some ways for me at least.

In the UK, the national health system was tasked with a study. 10 years ago approx 250 people were referred to the Gender Identity Services department. In 2022 that was 5000, a doubling from 2021.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ender-identity

I am sure with the help of of the NDP, some medical professionals and other experts, some aspect of this may be watered down or changed due reflect a better understanding.