Mike Smith's... woes? He blows? Eating crows? Who knows! (Also David Rittich exists!)

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

A lack of talent? Rooting around in bargain bins?

Sigalet can only do so much. Can't make chicken salad out of chicken ####.

No, no. You have it the wrong way around.

He's turning chicken salad into chicken ####

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

No, no. You have it the wrong way around.



He's turning chicken salad into chicken ####

The list of goalies to play for the flames on the BT era is uninspiring at best, embarrassing at worst. But sure fire the goalie coach for management's failures.

[Jore]

it's truly remarkable that not even one goalie has gone on a mcelhinney-like run in all the years that sigalet has been here. you'd think that even random chance would produce one career-year type of performance from the journeyman goalies we've had (not to mention one year above 17th in the league in save percentage), but no... curious

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Jore

it's truly remarkable that not even one goalie has gone on a mcelhinney-like run in all the years that sigalet has been here. you'd think that even random chance would produce one career-year type of performance from the journeyman goalies we've had (not to mention one year above 17th in league save percentage), but no... curious

The Flames have played some pretty crappy defense over the last 5 years too. The goalies are bad yes, but Sutter's (coach) Flames these are not. Bad goaltending is magnified by bad defense.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

A lack of talent? Rooting around in bargain bins?

Sigalet can only do so much. Can't make chicken salad out of chicken ####.

Sorry, I don't buy it. Coming into Calgary, Brian Elliott eas not "chicken ****"... he had just taken his team to the WCF and was a consistent performer. A year with Sigalet and he totally lost his talent? I don't care what he's done since then, the damage has been done. Mike Smith? I don't care if he's aging, his mistakes are the kind he has control over. David Rittich has started both his seasons on fire and only trended downwards. Chad Johnson was our best player for half a season and trended towards being our worst player by season's end. Jonas Hiller came in, carried us to the playoffs, and then became the worst goalie on the entire continent.

This is a far cry from, say, playing Reto Berra or Joey MacDonald in net because you have no other choice.

Right now the Hurricanes' tandem of Mrazek - McEllhinney has the 14th best 5v5 SV% in the NHL. That's the definition of bargain bin shopping - one guy was on his way out of the league a year ago and the other guy was a waiver pickup. Now they've reached heights that seem far too lofty for our humble organization.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Honestly why do you think this? Even if you posit that every single goalie brought in has been utter garbage I can’t see how a single one of them ended up better when he left than when he arrived. So then his talent as a coach is his ability to exist? At some point you have to examine all of the options and maybe the sigalet might need to be replaced.

I’m not saying grab the pitchforks, I’m not even saying fire the guy, but why do you always vehemently oppose anything that could be construed as a negative opinion towards sigalet? What has any goalie here accomplished under his tutelage that provides evidence he should be deemed untouchable?

Unless you simply believe the goalie coach is irrrlevant so it doesn’t matter if he’s replaced or not. In which case again they can replace him because anyone could do the job.

I am not at all opposed to the Flames firing Sigalet if it would make the team better. I remain unconvinced that it would because I have yet to see a compelling reason to think that he is the problem. He could be a problem, but it seems odd that if this was the case that he would continue to cling to the same job through three coaching regimes while the GM has had no hesitation in replacing everyone else.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

The Flames have played some pretty crappy defense over the last 5 years too. The goalies are bad yes, but Sutter's (coach) Flames these are not. Bad goaltending is magnified by bad defense.

i wouldn't call this season's toronto or anaheim defensive powerhouses, yet they sit 4th and 6th in league save percentage. same for colorado last year (3rd), buffalo the year before (6th), etc. 17th in the league is also not a very high bar...

i am questioning why the flames haven't been getting these random goalie boosts, in addition to seeing declining results from goalies we have.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Sorry, I don't buy it. Coming into Calgary, Brian Elliott eas not "chicken ****"... he had just taken his team to the WCF and was a consistent performer. A year with Sigalet and he totally lost his talent? I don't care what he's done since then, the damage has been done. Mike Smith? I don't care if he's aging, his mistakes are the kind he has control over. David Rittich has started both his seasons on fire and only trended downwards. Chad Johnson was our best player for half a season and trended towards being our worst player by season's end. Jonas Hiller came in, carried us to the playoffs, and then became the worst goalie on the entire continent.



This is a far cry from, say, playing Reto Berra or Joey MacDonald in net because you have no other choice.



Right now the Hurricanes' tandem of Mrazek - McEllhinney has the 14th best 5v5 SV% in the NHL. That's the definition of bargain bin shopping - one guy was on his way out of the league a year ago and the other guy was a waiver pickup. Now they've reached heights that seem far too lofty for our humble organization.

Brian Elliott was an average goalie being propped up by elite defense IMO. And he could still never lock down the job. What his excuse these days? Is he suffering PTSD from the Sigalet years?

Johnson? LMFAO. Is Sigalet secretly coaching him these days? He might be the single worst goalie in the entire NHL.

As far as Mrazek and McElhinney go, I would take either over Smith in a heartbeat. Mrazek is underrated, just had some bad years on a bad Detroit team. Or maybe Sigalet was secretly coaching him? Who knows for sure but he is talented. We would look GREAT with a tandem of Rittich and Mrazek IMO. Not even Sigalet could mess that up.

We've had some bad goalies and a couple of average ones in the BT era, JMO. I really don't think anyone else was going to be working miracles with the tandems we've had.

[TheScorpion]

Mrazek hasn't had a season over .904 since 2016. Not convinced about that one.

[TheoFleury]

Nm

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Brian Elliott was an average goalie being propped up by elite defense IMO.

Ah. Gotcha. Elite defense.

So in 2015-16, when the ST. Louis Blues were 14th in 5v5 scoring chances against (24.27), and 13th in high danger chances against (9.72) they were an "elite" defense. And it was their "elite defense" that allowed him to make routine saves in the playoffs all the way to the WCF.

But in 2016-17, when the Calgary Flames were 8th in 5v5 scoring chances against (23.38) and 10th in high danger chances against (9.59) we were Elliott was "exposed". And it was their poor defense that caused them to get swept in the first round while Elliott couldn't super ultra difficult saves like shots from 35 feet to his left.

Elite defense my ass.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Ah. Gotcha. Elite defense.



So in 2015-16, when the ST. Louis Blues were 14th in 5v5 scoring chances against (24.27), and 13th in high danger chances against (9.72) they were an "elite" defense. And it was their "elite defense" that allowed him to make routine saves in the playoffs all the way to the WCF.



But in 2016-17, when the Calgary Flames were 8th in 5v5 scoring chances against (23.38) and 10th in high danger chances against (9.59) we were Elliott was "exposed". And it was their poor defense that caused them to get swept in the first round while Elliott couldn't super ultra difficult saves like shots from 35 feet to his left.



Elite defense my ass.

I guess it's all Sigalet's fault then.

But seriously what is their excuse these days? Did their exposure to Sigalet's goalie destroying tactics ruin them for life?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

I guess it's all Sigalet's fault then.

But seriously what is their excuse these days? Did their exposure to Sigalet's goalie destroying tactics ruin them for life?

I am also curious to know how, if Sigalet is such an obvious problem, he has managed to survive two previous coaching regimes? For a guy that he inherited Treliving seems strangely attached, no?

[Enoch Root]

I can't sit here and definitely say that Sigalet is the problem.

However, there are a few things that I do know:

1) The Flames have gone through goalie after goalie for the past few years, and almost invariably, their performance has deteriorated in year 2, or after a period of time with the team.

2) We consistently see similar problems, being:

a) a propensity to play too deep in the crease
b) a propensity to 'lunge'
c) the weird positioning of the glove hand

Again, I'm no goalie coach, but these things bug the crap out of me. And there hasn't been enough success from the goalies for me to forgive and ignore these annoyances.

I am in no position to say: fire Sigalet. But the evidence as I see it is far from favourable, and I sure as hell have seen no reason to argue against the idea.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

I guess it's all Sigalet's fault then.

But seriously what is their excuse these days? Did their exposure to Sigalet's goalie destroying tactics ruin them for life?

Yes.

And there's nothing extreme about that. Goalies are fragile and dependent on so many things - technical proficiency, perfect timing, confidence, the trust of their teammates, the trust of their coach. And in small sample sizes, yes, the details of the skaters in front of them affects their perceived performance.

But when every goalie to go through Sigalet over a five year span sees the technical side of their game absolutely fall apart, and their confidence with it, and then the trust of their teammates, it's no surprise they struggle to rebuild their careers.

Yet every year it's just a new tandem (as if playing the hot hand is a successful strategy for any team) with the same pattern... hot start... then down and down and down until they're so bad they'll clear waivers.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am also curious to know how, if Sigalet is such an obvious problem, he has managed to survive two previous coaching regimes? For a guy that he inherited Treliving seems strangely attached, no?

Treliving probably is aware he hasn't given him enough to work with. Hopefully our 1st and/or Kylington are used as trade bait in the offseason. Not sure who they will target, or who they should, but they need to get it right this time.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

A lack of talent? Rooting around in bargain bins?

Sigalet can only do so much. Can't make chicken salad out of chicken ####.

I'm not saying the goalies Treliving brought in should be world beaters, but they should be performing at least to an equal or better level than before they were brought in. I get age will play a factor, but every goalie he's ever coached has regressed to a worse goalie leaving the organization.

So he basically made chicken #### into something worse than chicken ####. We were all happy when guys like Gulutzen and Cameron were axed for underperforming. What makes Sigalet different?

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

I guess it's all Sigalet's fault then.

But seriously what is their excuse these days? Did their exposure to Sigalet's goalie destroying tactics ruin them for life?

At some point, if the goalie coach can't make the goalies he's working with better, what's the point of even having a goalie coach?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Treliving probably is aware he hasn't given him enough to work with. Hopefully our 1st and/or Kylington are used as trade bait in the offseason. Not sure who they will target, or who they should, but they need to get it right this time.

Exactly. Nothing but washed up vets and 'best goaltender not playing in NA' types.
Treliving has some great strengths. But signing and acquiring goaltending talent are not among them. He gets one chance to correct the goaltending this off-season.
Regarding Sigalet, like any of - I have no clue. Maybe he sucks. But I'm not sure a team has had worse goaltending talent rostered in the last 5 years. If any team has had less talent, I can't think of who that might be.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I'm not saying the goalies Treliving brought in should be world beaters, but they should be performing at least to an equal or better level than before they were brought in. I get age will play a factor, but every goalie he's ever coached has regressed to a worse goalie leaving the organization.

So he basically made chicken #### into something worse than chicken ####. We were all happy when guys like Gulutzen and Cameron were axed for underperforming. What makes Sigalet different?

I am guessing the difference is that he was deemed to be not a part of the problem. Brad Treliving has fired six coaches in his time in Calgary. Why would Sigalet continue to survive every regime unless he is doing something right?

What do you think it is that makes Sigalet different?