The Walking Dead TV show only thread- Part II ***See spoiler rules in first post***

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Dad needs to keep his opinions to himself. Your kid is on a zombie show and people die. You rode the gravy train but it's derailed. He'll got more work.

Never watched him act before have you?

[Nufy]

I get it now..

Will Smith actually survived the explosion in his basement lab and has used the blood from his last experiment to produce an cure for the walker illness.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I see a lot of "that was disjointed" or "I'm confused". What the heck was confusing? Everything that happened led one thing to another in a totally straightforward way.

I can see criticisms with the way that episode was filmed (the Unforgiven-style lighting they were going for didn't really work, for one, and the "how did Eugene get them out exactly" thing). But not a lack of coherence.

Disjointed in the context of your second paragraph. Shot and edited in a way that made the storytelling choppy and distracting. It was so frustrating that it sapped the emotion from the big moments and undercut the quality ones.

I didn't find anything particularly confusing (other than why they went in that direction).

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I see a lot of "that was disjointed" or "I'm confused". What the heck was confusing? Everything that happened led one thing to another in a totally straightforward way.

I can see criticisms with the way that episode was filmed (the Unforgiven-style lighting they were going for didn't really work, for one, and the "how did Eugene get them out exactly" thing). But not a lack of coherence.

I'm a big fan of the show, but I found that last episode pretty hard to follow at points. Firstly the decision to not reveal how the Saviours got out of the building was odd. I found for the first half hour I was so concerned that I'd missed something major, that it was hard to focus on what was going on.

We also spent 2 episodes watching Rick and the garbage pail kids. Then they all just run off as soon as they arrive at he Saviours base...were they betraying Rick again?

There's just all together too much jumping around going on. They don't need to show us what every group is doing every 10 minutes. They should just focus on one storyline at a time.

[Erick Estrada]

You go from the 7th episode where the Saviours are trapped inside their sanctuary surrounded by zombies to episode 8 where a group of them armed outside the doors of Alexandria, another group heading off the hilltop gang, and another armed group at the kingdom. If you just watched the 8th episode of the season you would think that it just picked up after last season as you would never know the Saviours took plenty of losses in gunfire and zombie attacks over the first 7 episodes. How many Saviours are there? We saw so many killed in the first 7 episodes and it's like they brought a reserve army for the midseason finale. It's like they are just throwing stuff up against the wall and don't even care if the story makes any sense as it's all about the end game for them which is getting you to tune in for the commercials to appease their advertisers.

It's pretty obvious that this show is the golden goose for AMC and they are treating it like a money maker which has sapped all the creativity and story. It's all about making as many episodes as possible of filler to keep selling all that advertising time and leaving all the story progression to the last episode of the half seasons. If it wasn't for PVR's I don't know if I could sit through an entire episode as there's just so many commercials it feels like the show is a sham to get you to watch advertisements. Ratings dropping could be a good thing for this show as they need to get back to basics.

[nfotiu]

By far the biggest problem is that I just don't care about anyone any more. I don't even think I really like any of the characters. The storylines are hard to follow because I just don't care enough to put the effort into paying attention and figuring out what's going on.

The comment above about being like Lost and just watching because I've invested so much time into it is bang on. At least with Lost, it seemed like there would be some pay off at the end.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You go from the 7th episode where the Saviours are trapped inside their sanctuary surrounded by zombies to episode 8 where a group of them armed outside the doors of Alexandria, another group heading off the hilltop gang, and another armed group at the kingdom. If you just watched the 8th episode of the season you would think that it just picked up after last season as you would never know the Saviours took plenty of losses in gunfire and zombie attacks over the first 7 episodes. How many Saviours are there? We saw so many killed in the first 7 episodes and it's like they brought a reserve army for the midseason finale. It's like they are just throwing stuff up against the wall and don't even care if the story makes any sense as it's all about the end game for them which is getting you to tune in for the commercials to appease their advertisers.

It's pretty obvious that this show is the golden goose for AMC and they are treating it like a money maker which has sapped all the creativity and story. It's all about making as many episodes as possible of filler to keep selling all that advertising time and leaving all the story progression to the last episode of the half seasons. If it wasn't for PVR's I don't know if I could sit through an entire episode as there's just so many commercials it feels like the show is a sham to get you to watch advertisements. Ratings dropping could be a good thing for this show as they need to get back to basics.

I actually thought the PVR cut off the beginning of the episode and had to go double check since it really seemed to be missing a whole episode between 7 and 8!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

By far the biggest problem is that I just don't care about anyone any more. I don't even think I really like any of the characters. The storylines are hard to follow because I just don't care enough to put the effort into paying attention and figuring out what's going on.

The comment above about being like Lost and just watching because I've invested so much time into it is bang on. At least with Lost, it seemed like there would be some pay off at the end.

Oh there was a payoff alright, it just wasnt for the viewers.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

By far the biggest problem is that I just don't care about anyone any more. I don't even think I really like any of the characters. The storylines are hard to follow because I just don't care enough to put the effort into paying attention and figuring out what's going on.

The comment above about being like Lost and just watching because I've invested so much time into it is bang on. At least with Lost, it seemed like there would be some pay off at the end.

At this point I think this is my problem as well. Before I went to post I thought about the characters I would be most upset if they killed off. I really can't think of one.

I've said before and still believe that the one element the writers are good at is character development. Yet, with that they have transformed the lot of them into genuinely unlikable people. Or at least people I just don't care enough about at this point.

The last character to go that really shocked and upset me was Glenn. Despite everything they went through there was just something wholesome about the character, and the way he went out was unnecessarily brutal and shocking.

Darryl and Maggie, two characters I had always rooted for, have been transformed into what they hated. Never really got the appeal of Michonne. Carol is frustrating, and so is Morgan (although probably one of the best characters on the show). Most of the peripheral characters like Enid, Father Gabriel, Tara, Rosita, etc. don't really matter. And the new characters like Ezekiel and Jesus aren't developed enough for me to care.

Aaron is ok. I like Aaron.

[Erick Estrada]

Aaron is likeable because he's still resembles a normal person that has values. I suppose Jesus as well although he's sort or boring seeing the writers are simply using him as a yin to Maggie's yang. Morgan turned into a full blown idiot and Carol jumped the shark a few seasons ago when they turned her into female Rambo. The rest of the cast are all bitter, angry killing machines. At least Negan carries himself with some swagger and has a presence but I find angry Rick, Michonne, Rosita, Tara, etc unlikeable, uninteresting, and hard to get invested in as characters I'm supposed to care about.

[Wormius]

I don't really have any major negative thoughts about the characters, but the Saviors are a little more intriguing at this point. Negan, Simon, Gavin are more fascinating at this point.

My main gripe about this and the last few seasons is how everybody is separated from each other so much. I kind of liked how the group stayed together more - there are too many side stories.

[MoneyGuy]

What is Negan kills everyone and his group becomes the protagonists?

[ken0042]

I don't think they could kill everybody and become the protagonists. However it's important to point out that Negan et al have only killed so far in retaliation; or as an accident. So it wouldn't be a leap to see them becoming the good guys.

[DownInFlames]

His dad might be a dick, but Chandler Riggs seems to have a good sense of humour.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I don't think they could kill everybody and become the protagonists. However it's important to point out that Negan et al have only killed so far in retaliation; or as an accident. So it wouldn't be a leap to see them becoming the good guys.

There was a good exchange between Carl and Negan. Carl said there was a baby in Alexandra and Negan responded with there was a baby at the outpost.


I thought it really showed how either side could be the "good guys".

[Radio]

That's what the last 2 seasons have been about. "Good" is relevant to which side you're on.

It's a microcosm of real life. Two leaders who think they are the "good guy" and doing right by their people, who are hell bent on destroying the "bad guy" and his evil people.

As for how they got out I think it can be pretty much deduced from previous episodes.

Daryl crashes the truck through the wall but most of the workers are already on the second level.

The walkers flood in through the opening, some people are killed, but most escape up to the walkways.

They kill a few walkers at the foot of the stairs and they can't get by.

The scene where Negan and Eugene talk about how that would take a ####load of bullets. Eugene assures Negan if he can get to his machines he can replace those bullets. During this time there is a lull in the shooting.

Then Negan gives the okay and it's just non-stop gunfire. What that meant to me is they killed the walkers from above on the walkways in relative safety.

Then they led the rest away with music.

As for just saying "Eugene" when asked about how they escaped they are basically saying "None of your business" to other characters. Because as an audience we should be able to figure it out by what we see.

It just seems obvious to me how they got out.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Radio

That's what the last 2 seasons have been about. "Good" is relevant to which side you're on.

It's a microcosm of real life. Two leaders who think they are the "good guy" and doing right by their people, who are hell bent on destroying the "bad guy" and his evil people.

As for how they got out I think it can be pretty much deduced from previous episodes.

Daryl crashes the truck through the wall but most of the workers are already on the second level.

The walkers flood in through the opening, some people are killed, but most escape up to the walkways.

They kill a few walkers at the foot of the stairs and they can't get by.

The scene where Negan and Eugene talk about how that would take a ####load of bullets. Eugene assures Negan if he can get to his machines he can replace those bullets. During this time there is a lull in the shooting.

Then Negan gives the okay and it's just non-stop gunfire. What that meant to me is they killed the walkers from above on the walkways in relative safety.

Then they led the rest away with music.

As for just saying "Eugene" when asked about how they escaped they are basically saying "None of your business" to other characters. Because as an audience we should be able to figure it out by what we see.

It just seems obvious to me how they got out.

This is what I figure as well. However, there are some problems with this theory.

1) How was this accomplished so quickly? There are full on pathways there when Rick arrives, and three entire platoons of Saviors have coordinated towards each of the Hilltop, Alexandria, and the Kingdom. This is a major storytelling problem, one of many TWD has had over the last number of seasons and especially the current one.

2) How the hell did the many snipers they have not hear or notice? What about Morgan? What about the snipers that escaped in the cars that weren't available...because they escaped? Somehow the Saviors found and killed most of the snipers, and they beat the ones that got away to their respective sanctuaries?

3) That's really something that Negan needed Eugene to figure out for him? Shoot them? I get that by allowing the Walkers inside it gave them the opportunity to eliminate them without the threat of sniper fire, but what about the ones outside? They would have had to deal with them, as well as sniper fire. Also, the whole reason Negan brought Eugene on board is because he figured out he was useful because HE MADE A BULLET.

4) Any or all of these could have been explained in a couple lines of dialogue between Dwight and anyone on the road. It sure could have fit in during the time that the surviving Savior spent lamenting his betrayal and NOT killing him.

It's all just very weak storytelling. And where before I would dismiss some bad writing, editing, or directing as an acceptable cost in producing a zombie drama, it's starting to all add up into what has been just a bad show for about a full season.

[Radio]

I agree it's not great story telljng that's for sure. The passage of time is very hard to figure out. I am sure Rick was in the hole for more than a day, but how long? It was certainly long enough for the Saviors to do all that. Even sneak out and take out the snipers i am guessing.

Vikings is good at timelines, there's characters all over the world and in 5 minutes of screen time you can tell days or weeks or months have pased since their last 5 minutes.

I am sure Negan could come up a plan to shoot them all easy enough but if there is no guarantee of getting ghe ammo back, he's not going to do it.

Like I said I agree it's not good story telling but it seems obvious, to me anyways, what happened.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

His dad might be a dick, but Chandler Riggs seems to have a good sense of humour.

I will say casting nailed him for that role as he does totally look like he could be the offspring of his TV mom.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

There was a good exchange between Carl and Negan. Carl said there was a baby in Alexandra and Negan responded with there was a baby at the outpost.


I thought it really showed how either side could be the "good guys".

I think they showed that Negan has some good intentions. However what he's running is a dictatorship and misunderstood good guys don't steal other people's wives and force them to be in his harem. At the end of the day he's no closer to being a good guy than the governor.

I do agree that the show is trying to depict that when it comes to survival good people do bad things but this season all we saw was Rick and Co. murdering plenty of Saviours that were just doing their jobs at outposts who are no more evil or bad than them. I realize the "us or them" mentality of survival is on display but it's still not easy to watch or feel good about what the main characters are doing and there's just not a lot to like or feel good about anymore nor is there a tangible reason to want Rick's group to succeed outside of the fact that they are the main characters and I'm not sure that makes for good TV.