Wild Card Race (Western Conference)

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by jaikorven

And all the pressure is on VAN not the Flames. The Flames have a better shot at winning the series IMO.

I'd say there is no pressure on either team. Both would be looking at the season as a success already. It's all gravy after that.

[Always Earned Never Given]

Ok so by predicting the next 5 or so games for these 5 teams, I came up with this and therefore need your help.
Minnesota 45-30-7- 97 points 41 ROWS
Vancouver 45-30-7- 97 points 41 ROWS
Calgary 45-30-7- 97 points 41 ROWS
Los Angeles 41-26-15- 97 points 39 ROWS
Winnipeg 42-27-13 - 97 points 35 ROWS

1st tie breaker is ROWs so WINNiPEG is out but there is a 3-way tie for 5th all with the same amount of ROW's.
2nd tie breaker is Head 2 head but what happens if we have a better record against Van but not against Min and Van a better record against Min (i haven't checked)?
Do they automatically go to the third which is Goal differential?

I guess this would only be an issue if all three teams were in the same division right?

Thanks

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I'd say there is no pressure on either team. Both would be looking at the season as a success already. It's all gravy after that.

Pressure would be on VAN - the core is aging and they window is closing, if not already shut.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I'd say there is no pressure on either team. Both would be looking at the season as a success already. It's all gravy after that.

I disagree. Vancouver isn't in a rebuilt mode, they have a aging core as far as their impact players go. The Sedins are 34, Vrbata is 33, Burrows is 33. Bieksa and Hamhuis are both well over 30

They bought in Miller.

This team had to make the playoffs, they aren't a happy to be there team, this is the last roll of the dice on this core, if they don't have success this playoff season, its likely that they're going to have to go into a lengthy rebuild.

While I like Horvat, I think he tops out as a strong second line two way guy without elite offensive instincts. So they are going to need to rebuild their top 6 and top pairing blueliners.

They are under pressure in the playoffs, its success or oblivion.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

It's sort of in between. Coming into the season Van was a bubble team - might make it, might miss. They picked 6th overall last year, after all. Making the playoffs would be a success. But it wouldn't be totally unexpected, either.

However, for the Flames, it's completely unexpected and therefore "just happy we got there" totally fits.

Basically, to exceed expectations by the same amount as the Flames making the playoffs, the Canucks would probably have to make the conference finals. THAT would be "just happy we got here" for them.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

They are under pressure in the playoffs, its success or oblivion.

Actually it was "Get into play-offs or Oblivion" after last year.

[vicarious]

If the Flames and Canucks meet in the first round, the Orcas will jump out to a 3-1 series lead. 'Nucks fans will taunt, jeer and start planning the parade route only to watch the Flames notch to series at 3-3. Game 7 will go into overtime, with the Flames winning on a fortuitous bounce off Bollig's right skate that will enrage Canucks fans who will insist that it was kicked in.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I disagree. Vancouver isn't in a rebuilt mode, they have a aging core as far as their impact players go. The Sedins are 34, Vrbata is 33, Burrows is 33. Bieksa and Hamhuis are both well over 30

They bought in Miller.

You could say the same about our team and point to how Gio is 31, Hudler is 31, Stajan is 31, Wideman is 32, and Engelland is 32 (turns 33 this week). We brought in Hiller who is 33.

Reality is both teams are in a transition period. Neither went full Oiler on their rebuild but both teams have made an obvious effort to get way younger.

The Kesler trade pretty much forced Vancouver to start building for the future... yes they have no real replacement in place for the Sedins, which is a similar situation to how we'll need to eventually cover for Gio's aging with a stronger Blueline.

Reality is they were a mess to close out last year... The Sedins essentially went from PPG players to 2nd liners under Torterella.

Coming into this season, yes Vancouver had a better roster than the Flames, but they probably figured if they were in a playoff spot they'd be fighting for it like Winnipeg is right now. That they've cruised to the post-season with huge wins over elite teams, even through injuries and the further aging of the Sedins is something I imagine their fans are pretty excited about.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You could say the same about our team and point to how Gio is 31, Hudler is 31, Stajan is 31, Wideman is 32, and Engelland is 32 (turns 33 this week). We brought in Hiller who is 33.

Reality is both teams are in a transition period. Neither went full Oiler on their rebuild but both teams have made an obvious effort to get way younger.

The Kesler trade pretty much forced Vancouver to start building for the future... yes they have no real replacement in place for the Sedins, which is a similar situation to how we'll need to eventually cover for Gio's aging with a stronger Blueline.

Nah, we are in much better shape for the future than the canucks are. You are cherry picking older players from our roster to match the older players form theirs, and not taking enough into account the role/importance of those players on each team.

Just go look at the average age of each teams top 5 or even top 10 scorers.

Their top 5: 33, 33, 33, 26, 31
Our top 5: 30, 21, 20, 31, 31

...plus we haven't even had Bennett suit up for us yet.

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You could say the same about our team and point to how Gio is 31, Hudler is 31, Stajan is 31, Wideman is 32, and Engelland is 32 (turns 33 this week). We brought in Hiller who is 33.

Stajan does not play an integral roll on this team. He is our 3/4th line center.
Hiller was signed as being expendable at the end of his contract. Stopgap goalie solution.
Engelland again was a stopgap solution. He's gone as soon as his contract is up. Has little impact on this team.

[hwy19man]

After Tuesday's games:


St. Louis (46-23-7) 37 ROW, 99 pts--second in the Central Division
Chicago (46-24-6) 37 ROW, 98 pts--third in the Central Divsion
1. Minnesota (44-25-7) 40 ROW, 95 pts--fourth in the Central Division

Vancouver (45-27-5) 40 ROW, 95 pts--second in the Pacific Division
Calgary (42-28-7) 38 ROW, 91 pts--third in the Pacific Division
2. Winnipeg (39-26-12) 32 ROW, 90 pts--fifth in the Central Division

3. Los Angeles (37-25-14) 35 ROW, 88 pts--and fourth in the Pacific Division
4. Dallas (37-30-10) 33 ROW, 84 pts
5. San Jose (37-30-9) 33 ROW, 83 pts--and fifth in the Pacific Division
6. Colorado (35-29-12) 26 ROW, 82 pts

Canucks won in the shootout
Jets lost in regulation

______________________________________



Eastern conference playoff race


Pittsburgh (42-23-11) 38 ROW, 95 pts
Islanders (45-27-5) 38 ROW, 95 pts
1. Washington (42-25-10) 38 ROW, 94 pts
Detroit (40-23-13) 37 ROW, 93 pts--third in the Atlantic Division
2. Boston (39-25-13) 36 ROW, 91 pts--and fourth in the Atlantic Division

3. Ottawa (38-26-12) 32 ROW, 88 pts--and fifth in the Atlantic Division
4. Florida (35-27-15) 27 ROW, 85 pts

Bruins and Capitals won in regulation
Panthers lost in regulation
Senators won in the shootout
Red Wings lost in the shootout

[heep223]

Originally Posted by rohara66

Stajan does not play an integral roll on this team. He is our 3/4th line center.
Hiller was signed as being expendable at the end of his contract. Stopgap goalie solution.
Engelland again was a stopgap solution. He's gone as soon as his contract is up. Has little impact on this team.

Plus Gio, Wideman and Hudler likely have 3-4 good years left in them. The Sedins, Burrows and Vrbata have 1 or 2. That is a huge difference.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You could say the same about our team and point to how Gio is 31, Hudler is 31, Stajan is 31, Wideman is 32, and Engelland is 32 (turns 33 this week). We brought in Hiller who is 33.

I think the players you list right there say a whole lot about the differences.

Giordano and Hudler I'll give you. I don't expect Hudler to perform this well for too long. Giordano, who knows? I expected him to cap out around the time Iginla was traded so every step he has taken since is a bonus to me.

But the rest aren't terribly important. Stajan is a 4th line centre, Hiller is playing about equal amounts with Ramo, I'd argue Wideman is the Flames' 4th defenceman (Giordano, Brodie, Russell are over him) and Engelland is a support defenceman who's getting a wide number of minutes to keep the Russell/Wideman pairing together.

By comparison, the Sedins and Vrbata are the top 3 forwards for points while Hamhuis is likely their #2 defence. These players, who play big roles on the Canucks, are getting older and I'm not sure they have the pieces to replace all the above.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Nah, we are in much better shape for the future than the canucks are. .

I don't think there's any argument from me about that. Our team really started our rebuild/retool around 2011 with the Regehr trade while they didn't start until 2014 with the Kesler trade. We're about 3 years ahead of them. But the reality is still that they're building a future team in an organic manner.

But the rest aren't terribly important. Stajan is a 4th line centre, Hiller is playing about equal amounts with Ramo,

Coming into this season, Stajan was a 2nd/3rd line center that was key in Sheltering Monahan.

Miller (was) playing about equal amounts with Lack, too.

Hamhuis is likely their #2 defence.

Edler, Tanev, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Sbisa. All five of those guys are averaging over 18 a game and only Edler (age 28) is a clear-cut top pairing D. They're not depending on Hamhuis to carry a load.

I agree the Sedins and Vrbata are a huge part of their success, and when those guys are gone they're going to crash hard for at least a year or two, but that doesn't mean they'll be bottom dwellers. They've filled out their roster with a good age spread.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I don't think there's any argument from me about that. Our team really started our rebuild around 2011 with the Regehr trade while they didn't start until 2014 with the Kesler trade. We're about 3 years ahead of them.

You think? I'm not sure I agree. I'd say our rebuild started the year we traded our best assets for first round draft picks.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by heep223

You think? I'm not sure I agree. I'd say our rebuild started the year we traded our best assets for first round draft picks.

That was just when it officially "became a rebuild". The retool, which is the stage the Canucks are in, started earlier.

Let's consider that Feaster came in as an assistant GM in 2010 with his main role to fix our scouting/drafting. He was immediate upgraded to GM as soon as the inevitibletiming came up.

He traded Tim Erixon for two 2nd rounders. We probably could have got a roster player that time but instead he proceeded to put some serious focus on the 2011 draft, where we picked up:

Baertschi
Granlund
Wotherspoon
Gaudreau
Brossoit

We traded Regehr for:

Chris Butler (Age 25)
Paul Byron (Age 22)

We also traded Bourque for Camalleri but more importantly gave up essentially a 2nd rounder for Karri Ramo in the same trade.

It wasn't a "rebuild" at the time but it was in preparation for one. That's where the Canucks are right now and they're essentially making the same kind of smaller moves before the big ones.

Even when we traded away Iginla/Bouwmeester we kept a LOT of vets around. It was pretty clear we weren't going to go the scorched earth route, even when guys like Ekblad and MacKinnon/Eichel and McDavid could have made it a no-brainer. I never thought the Iginla trade was a panic trade, and watching Hartley's interviews it always sounds like he knew before he arrived that a true rebuild was about to start.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I disagree. Vancouver isn't in a rebuilt mode, they have a aging core as far as their impact players go. The Sedins are 34, Vrbata is 33, Burrows is 33. Bieksa and Hamhuis are both well over 30

They bought in Miller.

This team had to make the playoffs, they aren't a happy to be there team, this is the last roll of the dice on this core, if they don't have success this playoff season, its likely that they're going to have to go into a lengthy rebuild.

While I like Horvat, I think he tops out as a strong second line two way guy without elite offensive instincts. So they are going to need to rebuild their top 6 and top pairing blueliners.

They are under pressure in the playoffs, its success or oblivion.

Vancouver has accepted that this edition of the Nucks ain't winning the cup already, there is little pressure on the team or management this year.
Playoffs are viewed as a pleasant surprise mostly.

[SHOGUN]

Is there a possibility that Gio might be healthy come playoff time?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Is there a possibility that Gio might be healthy come playoff time?

No. He has a minimum 4 month recovery time, with surgery at the beginning of March.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Is there a possibility that Gio might be healthy come playoff time?

Unless he injects himself with Bouma's blood, not happening